Tesla's liability for promising FSD later this year

[DR.T]

I did pay the 6k , I really wanted enhanced summon which was listed. Still waiting...... if not I would like a refund too.

 

[mswlogo]

It’s Elon’s definition of FSD and Elon’s definition of feature complete. So basically nothing.

 

[pscarroll]

Tesla just needs to keep releasing new features, advanced summon, various stuff to keep us happy, maybe finally update our computer to version 3 for those of us that paid at delivery last year and even those that paid years ago. It's just lazy and counterproductive to cry "lawsuit!" for a company we believe in, an awesome vehicle, and a great future we are helping make happen.

 

[Magnets!]

compensation will be first 5 years of robotaxi commission free ;-)

 

[trm2]

You make a very good point. For about 4 months now, without any apparent liability, tesla.com order page for FSD has claimed the following, as though it is currently available:

• Summon: your parked car will come find you anywhere in a parking lot. Really.

And it currently does just that. Sure, you need to be close to the car and in a straight line, but the car will come to you, anywhere in the parking lot.

 

[Atari2600]

I can't wait for my $4,000 FSD handout. Hopefully they can deliver.

 

[diplomat33]

Perhaps this has been discussed but I didn't see anything. We are in middle of July and the website still says FSD by end of year (responding to traffic lights and driving in the city).

Assuming this doesn't happen which I believe to be the case what's Teslas liability on this?

That is an assumption. It is entirely possible that Tesla will keep their promise to release those features by the end of this year or early next year. Heck, i doubt anyone will complain if Tesla is a couple months late. After all the features are working pretty well now in development and we are still 5 months from the end of this year. There is still time to release those features.

 

[jebinc]

I can't wait for my $4,000 FSD handout. Hopefully they can deliver.

Don't you mean, "Give back w/o interest" since you already paid them?

 

[kavyboy]

And it currently does just that. Sure, you need to be close to the car and in a straight line, but the car will come to you, anywhere in the parking lot.

Elon just outed himself!

 

[notAnExpert]

And it currently does just that. Sure, you need to be close to the car and in a straight line, but the car will come to you, anywhere in the parking lot.

I guess by that definition the car is already FSD. There is at least one case where it drives itself, albeit in a straight-line for 30 feet out of my garage.

 

[trm2]

I guess by that definition the car is already FSD. There is at least one case where it drives itself, albeit in a straight-line for 30 feet out of my garage.

Well, HOPEFULLY it is a straight line!

 

[JulienW]

Me: For compensation I'm willing to accept a Roadster with the SpaceX package in the back of a Tesla Pickup and call it even.
Judge: Granted, next (wacko) case.

 

[run-the-joules]

Does anybody know how many people actually paid for the How kany people said, "Here! Take my $6000 for something that may work in the future."? Out of all those that paid how many would actually want a refund? It would seem that most people, at least on the forum, know about Elon time and that when he said the end of the year, he didn't say what year.

It was $3k when I paid for it at the time I bought my car in January 2018. If that purchase has conferred no actual benefits by the time I sell my car (likely to be approximately 36mo after purchase), I don't think it's unreasonable to expect some sort of refund. Or free FSD or an equal value credit on my next car, if it's a Tesla.

 

[groovidad]

I paid for the options. I realized it wouldn't be "complete", and fully accepted that. I'm willing to wait for the "refinement" of such and will be ready "when" that day comes. Who knows? The pricing on these options may become "inflated" once everyone marvels at the finished product(?)

 

[jebinc]

I paid for the options. I realized it wouldn't be "complete", and fully accepted that. I'm willing to wait for the "refinement" of such and will be ready "when" that day comes. Who knows? The pricing on these options may become "inflated" once everyone marvels at the finished product(?)

That was "part" of my logic... the other part was enhanced summon and "want"!

 

[richtrav]

I've wondered why they don't release something like a limited semi-FSD for local roads that you normally travel on. Routes where you've already "taught" the car where the stop signs and red lights are, maybe even bumps or potholes or any place you need to slow down, and it has them memorized, along with speeds you generally travel. And if the computer is not yet good enough at reading the correct traffic light it could give you a pop-up screen or announcement asking you if you want to stop or go. If it "misses" a stop sign in training you can tell the car one is there and it would know to stop. To me that doesn't seem THAT hard, way easier than getting the computer to try and predict every scenario possible on any road anywhere, but maybe I'm missing something.

Speaking of that, does AP still try and recognize stop signs and lights? I remember something about that back this spring but haven't heard much since then. And will it do it only with EAP/FSD or basic AP too? Seems like if a stop warning comes up you could press an icon on the screen to stop or give a voice command.

 

[jebinc]

Me: For compensation I'm willing to accept a Roadster with the SpaceX package in the back of a Tesla Pickup and call it even.
Judge: Granted, next (wacko) case.

Hear, hear!

 

[M3BlueGeorgia]

Aside from the technical ability, there is also the regulatory aspect. Tesla may say that a feature is ready. That doesn’t mean every, or any, regulator agrees to permit its use.

They never said the feature would be ready, Elon said "feature complete", which in software development terms, and to quote Winston Churchill: "It not the end, or even the beginning of the end, but perhaps the end of the beginning".

It might be ready in 2 or 3 more years to begin seeking regulatory approval.

 

[focher]

You forgot to say that most of the money put aside went to the lawyer's who filed the suit on behalf of the owners!

That's actually how class action lawsuits work. Lawyers take up the class action at no charge and they don't do it on "behalf of the owners". The purpose is to create a financial disincentive for bad behavior, not to compensate the class. If you want to be compensated, you simply opt-out of the class and then go hire your own attorney. I'm always amazed that people think they should get a free legal ride from a class action lawsuit.

In the case of the earlier Autopilot / FSD class action that Tesla settled, if you were in the class and did not opt out then you were paid based on a sliding scale of how long you had your car without the features. I doubt the current Tesla website language would support a class action if they don't deliver FSD at the end of the year - but lawsuits are easy to file.

I do wonder why anyone would have purchased FSD prior to the switch from the EAP package to a "FSD" package. At least now, you are getting features with what Tesla now calls FSD. It's not full self driving, but there's good driver assist functionality and the price is not unreasonable in comparison to what other brands charge for similar features.

 

[run-the-joules]

I do wonder why anyone would have purchased FSD prior to the switch from the EAP package to a "FSD" package.

1. Believing the lie that it'd be more expensive later
2. To roll it into the loan
3. To theoretically be at the front of the line for any hardware upgrades necessary
4. Extra weight provided by that maybe-real-maybe-not video they released in 2016 to hype up FSD and make people think it might actually happen any time soon

Those were my reasons at the time.

I was a gullible idiot who broke his own rule about "never preorder", and it was a dumb decision for the same reason preordering anything else is dumb.