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Test driven Model X 10/2016

Tiger

Active Member
Oct 31, 2016
1,702
1,574
Estonia
Hi! Here is a summary of my test drive of Model X in 10/2016:

What was positive:
+ space (6 seats)
+ performance (P90D)
+ overall handling and comfort

Miscellaneous observations:
  • drove two days, 400 miles, measured (actual) range using Trip meter to find out actual range for my typical driving scenarios and results was 80% of nominal range
  • our family’s most typical weekend trip is 320 miles (actual) which would require a nominal range of approx 450 miles based on Trip meter measurements, and I remain hopeful for near-future range extension schemes
  • charging in casual circumstances might be surprisingly expensive; for example we were staying in a hotel downtown and needed parking for the night; we finished so late in the night we decided to leave car overnight in a nearby parking centre’s charging station which cost a whopping $50. Regular ICE could have parked just on the streets for free during the night.
  • I would like to be able to order a Tesla to the nearest country in Europe instead of Netherlands for “other europe”. Netherlands is quite far and there are Tesla Stores much closer to us. Other car brands can deliver via nearest countries’ stores why not Tesla?
Issues with the car worth fixing:
  • for door handles from outside is difficult to find the exact point where you are supposed to press to open, end up spending time looking like a fool pressing the handle all over until eventually getting it open if it is not locked and you won’t know if it is locked or you just pressed the wrong spot, which is frustrating. You will probably eventually learn how to do this for yourself, but for your casual passenger the experience remains frustrating. For usability's sake, it should be easy and simple, please "don't make me think", and please no excuses.
  • because the doors operate with soft buttons/pushes, they should provide feedback to user for better user experience when user is interacting with the mechanism: for example, when door is locked, it should give some negative response (red led light? beep?) to indicate user attempt was successful but door is locked. Currently it is frustrating for a casual passenger to use both the outside door handles and the inside falcon wing opening buttons. For example when child lock is activated for falcon doors, uninformed passengers can end up using excessive force and break the opening buttons because they do not get any feedback from the button that it is simply locked, instead they think it is unresponsive and continue manhandling the controls. Ofcourse if the opener was more traditional it would be more clear that it is responsive while inactive when childlock is on, nevertheless an active response would be even better.
  • in cold weather (we drove two days in nearly freezing but not yet freezing and the car had the subzero weather package) cold air blows onto your face from the top of the dashboard. The dashboard even feels cold if you put your hand on the dashboard. The air from the direct vents is warm but the air from the top of the dashboard is cold and very unpleasant. The air from the top of the dashboard should also be warm or alternatively there should be a way to adjust its temperature.
  • in evening (lower) sunlight the windshiled gives double vision for example of oncoming traffic’s rooftops
  • why not automate (full) open and close of the frunk like all other doors? Currently closing the frunk is quite delicate and frustrating when you don’t want to dent it.
  • the ground clearance needs a custom default setting which it will use when vehicle speed allows, preferably even separate settings for both urban/highway speed ranges. Currently you can set default height only to “standard”, but I would rather have it “very high” for an SUV in urban area speeds because when I normally (quite often) drive in unknown territory I seem to fail to remember to adjust the height and instead I would simply prefer it is always automatically elevated when possible.
  • neither the autopilot nor the cruise control reduced the vehicle speed according to speed limits even though limits were updated on the driver’s screen. To increase safety and to avoid unnecessary speeding tickets would be practical if the driving speed would change automatically when transitioning to a different speed zone. This could ofcourse be an optional setting. It should also take into account the current differential (+/-) to the limit, because typically there is a fixed legal surplus you can have, e.g., +5 mph.
  • the passengers of the car were unhappy to hear all the chimes and jingles of the car (parking assist, speed warning, autopilot/cruise control on/off/warning, double pedal warnings, brake assist) it would be friendly to be able to either mute all these alarms or somehow direct these sounds only to driver’s ears. Is not nice to listen to jingle bells all day every day all year around.
  • vanity mirror feels cumbersome and minuscule, maybe do some more usability research there?
  • Tesla currently has no emergency brake assist for driver-initiated emergency braking Emergency brake assist - Wikipedia which is a standard feature in modern cars and necessary in situations where car itself does not detect the collision, for example a small (but damaging) animal on the road. Tested this manually with the car, emergency breaking and no enhancement/assist occurred. See also Tesla’s new Autopilot would automatically brake for a moose, but not for a small deer
  • I found the v6.2 release notes say “Automatic Emergency Braking will stop applying the brakes when you press the brake pedal” which this seems detrimental, shouldn’t it instead further enhance/increase the force applied to the brakes after getting confirmation from the driver?
Future?
Tesla has often admitted that the S and X Models are overpriced with respect to their actual value/cost of production: “Without customers willing to buy the expensive Model S and X, we would be unable to fund the smaller, more affordable Model 3 development.” What does Tesla plan to happen to the future resale prices of current S and X Models after Model 3 development has become self sustaining and the extra high price is no longer needed for S and X? Shall the Model S and X price be reduced to better reflect the actual value/production cost of the cars? Or will they get more of a luxury look-and-feel similar to other cars in same price range (Audi, Bentley, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes)? And how will this further affect the future resale prices of current Model S and X?
 

Hans Allis

Member
Sep 21, 2016
296
163
Leersum, Netherlands
why not automate (full) open and close of the frunk like all other doors? Currently closing the frunk is quite delicate and frustrating when you don’t want to dent it.
I believe I've read that there are legal restrictions which precent them from doing so.

neither the autopilot nor the cruise control reduced the vehicle speed according to speed limits even though limits were updated on the driver’s screen. To increase safety and to avoid unnecessary speeding tickets would be practical if the driving speed would change automatically when transitioning to a different speed zone. This could ofcourse be an optional setting. It should also take into account the current differential (+/-) to the limit, because typically there is a fixed legal surplus you can have, e.g., +5 mph.
There's been quiet some discussion about this, I think. My guess would be that it's just not reliable enough to let it affect the driving of the car. For example, here in NL, we have speed limit signs with an additional sign underneath indicating that the limit only applies when the road's wet. I can imagine the camera picking that up and the car reducing speed without taking the road conditions into consideration.
 

polymathic

Member
Oct 30, 2016
273
387
Fairfax CA
While the X is very expensive, to get an SUV with similar performance actually costs more. A Cayenne S E-hybrid base is similar in price to the 90d base, yet slower. And it's not even a full EV. And no EAP. I don't see the X as overpriced compared to other high performance SUVs. Heck, people are spending $80,000 for an Infinity QX 80. Now that's an overpriced SUV.
 

Tiger

Active Member
Oct 31, 2016
1,702
1,574
Estonia
I believe I've read that there are legal restrictions which precent them from doing so.

It's difficult to believe Tesla who are making an autonomously driving vehicles wouldn't be able to solve such minor issue, it just needs to be safe in all conditions.

There's been quiet some discussion about this, I think. My guess would be that it's just not reliable enough to let it affect the driving of the car. For example, here in NL, we have speed limit signs with an additional sign underneath indicating that the limit only applies when the road's wet. I can imagine the camera picking that up and the car reducing speed without taking the road conditions into consideration.

How does Tesla immagine having an autonomously driving car if it cannot begin to understand the speed limits? Would be nice for the current owners to be to begin fleet-testing this feature already and get some feedback, ofcourse leaving final responsibility to the driver.
 

Tiger

Active Member
Oct 31, 2016
1,702
1,574
Estonia
While the X is very expensive, to get an SUV with similar performance actually costs more. A Cayenne S E-hybrid base is similar in price to the 90d base, yet slower. And it's not even a full EV. And no EAP. I don't see the X as overpriced compared to other high performance SUVs. Heck, people are spending $80,000 for an Infinity QX 80. Now that's an overpriced SUV.

Tesla being overpriced based on Tesla's own statement "Without customers willing to buy the expensive Model S and X, we would be unable to fund the smaller, more affordable Model 3 development." which means (between the lines) that there is excess in the price. Not wall buck went into building it, but into building Model 3 also.

The preceived value, however, is up to the eyes of the beholder. At least for me, if I drive a "Cayenne S E" and sit into "Model X", apart from the acceleration, I feel demoted. The interior of Model X is just not yet in the same league.
 
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aesculus

Still Trying to Figure This All Out
May 31, 2015
4,529
2,599
Northern California
for door handles from outside is difficult to find the exact point where you are supposed to press to open
Yep. You will get used to it or switch to the auto presenting door which will add another level of frustration for you. ;)

in cold weather (we drove two days in nearly freezing but not yet freezing and the car had the subzero weather package) cold air blows onto your face from the top of the dashboard.
First I have heard of this one. Might want to check with the sales people to make sure nothing is odd about the car.
in evening (lower) sunlight the windshiled gives double vision for example of oncoming traffic’s rooftops
Unfortunately this is a known problem that affect some (many?) cars. You have been warned and may want to delay your purchase until this is fully resolved. It's rumored to be in the works.
the ground clearance needs a custom default setting which it will use when vehicle speed allows, preferably even separate settings for both urban/highway speed ranges.
While you cannot have a location/type setting, you can vary it by speed. So just set it to 60 mph so it will not go down except on hi-ways.
neither the autopilot nor the cruise control reduced the vehicle speed according to speed limits even though limits were updated on the driver’s screen.
This is constantly changing. Nobody knows where it will land in either existing cars or the new AP 2 cars.
 

Electroman

Supporting Member
Supporting Member
Aug 18, 2012
6,389
7,471
TX
"neither the autopilot nor the cruise control reduced the vehicle speed according to speed limits even though limits were updated on the driver’s screen."

It does it automatically in back roads and it will limit your speed to speed limit+5 in AP mode. Not in highways though.

we finished so late in the night we decided to leave car overnight in a nearby parking centre’s charging station which cost a whopping $50

I don't get this. If you park in a paid parking garage, you will end up paying for it. And some charging stations like Blink, charge you by the hour, even if you are not charging. Remember all that hassle is only because you were in downtown hotel that did not have charging facility. But 95% of you charging will be in your home and at SuperChargers.

No comment about Autopilot or Supercharging?
 

luca

Member
Apr 1, 2015
152
177
German
Hi! Here is a summary of my test drive of Model X in 10/2016:

What was positive:
+ space (6 seats)
+ performance (P90D)
+ overall handling and comfort

Miscellaneous observations:
  • drove two days, 400 miles, measured (actual) range using Trip meter to find out actual range for my typical driving scenarios and results was 80% of nominal range
  • our family’s most typical weekend trip is 320 miles (actual) which would require a nominal range of approx 450 miles based on Trip meter measurements, and I remain hopeful for near-future range extension schemes
  • charging in casual circumstances might be surprisingly expensive; for example we were staying in a hotel downtown and needed parking for the night; we finished so late in the night we decided to leave car overnight in a nearby parking centre’s charging station which cost a whopping $50. Regular ICE could have parked just on the streets for free during the night.
  • I would like to be able to order a Tesla to the nearest country in Europe instead of Netherlands for “other europe”. Netherlands is quite far and there are Tesla Stores much closer to us. Other car brands can deliver via nearest countries’ stores why not Tesla?
Issues with the car worth fixing:
  • for door handles from outside is difficult to find the exact point where you are supposed to press to open, end up spending time looking like a fool pressing the handle all over until eventually getting it open if it is not locked and you won’t know if it is locked or you just pressed the wrong spot, which is frustrating. You will probably eventually learn how to do this for yourself, but for your casual passenger the experience remains frustrating. For usability's sake, it should be easy and simple, please "don't make me think", and please no excuses.
  • because the doors operate with soft buttons/pushes, they should provide feedback to user for better user experience when user is interacting with the mechanism: for example, when door is locked, it should give some negative response (red led light? beep?) to indicate user attempt was successful but door is locked. Currently it is frustrating for a casual passenger to use both the outside door handles and the inside falcon wing opening buttons. For example when child lock is activated for falcon doors, uninformed passengers can end up using excessive force and break the opening buttons because they do not get any feedback from the button that it is simply locked, instead they think it is unresponsive and continue manhandling the controls. Ofcourse if the opener was more traditional it would be more clear that it is responsive while inactive when childlock is on, nevertheless an active response would be even better.
  • in cold weather (we drove two days in nearly freezing but not yet freezing and the car had the subzero weather package) cold air blows onto your face from the top of the dashboard. The dashboard even feels cold if you put your hand on the dashboard. The air from the direct vents is warm but the air from the top of the dashboard is cold and very unpleasant. The air from the top of the dashboard should also be warm or alternatively there should be a way to adjust its temperature.
  • in evening (lower) sunlight the windshiled gives double vision for example of oncoming traffic’s rooftops
  • why not automate (full) open and close of the frunk like all other doors? Currently closing the frunk is quite delicate and frustrating when you don’t want to dent it.
  • the ground clearance needs a custom default setting which it will use when vehicle speed allows, preferably even separate settings for both urban/highway speed ranges. Currently you can set default height only to “standard”, but I would rather have it “very high” for an SUV in urban area speeds because when I normally (quite often) drive in unknown territory I seem to fail to remember to adjust the height and instead I would simply prefer it is always automatically elevated when possible.
  • neither the autopilot nor the cruise control reduced the vehicle speed according to speed limits even though limits were updated on the driver’s screen. To increase safety and to avoid unnecessary speeding tickets would be practical if the driving speed would change automatically when transitioning to a different speed zone. This could ofcourse be an optional setting. It should also take into account the current differential (+/-) to the limit, because typically there is a fixed legal surplus you can have, e.g., +5 mph.
  • the passengers of the car were unhappy to hear all the chimes and jingles of the car (parking assist, speed warning, autopilot/cruise control on/off/warning, double pedal warnings, brake assist) it would be friendly to be able to either mute all these alarms or somehow direct these sounds only to driver’s ears. Is not nice to listen to jingle bells all day every day all year around.
  • vanity mirror feels cumbersome and minuscule, maybe do some more usability research there?
  • Tesla currently has no emergency brake assist for driver-initiated emergency braking Emergency brake assist - Wikipedia which is a standard feature in modern cars and necessary in situations where car itself does not detect the collision, for example a small (but damaging) animal on the road. Tested this manually with the car, emergency breaking and no enhancement/assist occurred. See also Tesla’s new Autopilot would automatically brake for a moose, but not for a small deer
  • I found the v6.2 release notes say “Automatic Emergency Braking will stop applying the brakes when you press the brake pedal” which this seems detrimental, shouldn’t it instead further enhance/increase the force applied to the brakes after getting confirmation from the driver?
Future?
Tesla has often admitted that the S and X Models are overpriced with respect to their actual value/cost of production: “Without customers willing to buy the expensive Model S and X, we would be unable to fund the smaller, more affordable Model 3 development.” What does Tesla plan to happen to the future resale prices of current S and X Models after Model 3 development has become self sustaining and the extra high price is no longer needed for S and X? Shall the Model S and X price be reduced to better reflect the actual value/production cost of the cars? Or will they get more of a luxury look-and-feel similar to other cars in same price range (Audi, Bentley, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes)? And how will this further affect the future resale prices of current Model S and X?

no need to change

Audi, Bentley, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes all will be dead in near future like Nokia


Another garbage from SA shorter pretending you actually test drived it
 
Last edited:

Vitold

Active Member
Aug 10, 2015
1,688
1,950
NM
Tesla being overpriced based on Tesla's own statement "Without customers willing to buy the expensive Model S and X, we would be unable to fund the smaller, more affordable Model 3 development." which means (between the lines) that there is excess in the price. Not wall buck went into building it, but into building Model 3 also.

The preceived value, however, is up to the eyes of the beholder. At least for me, if I drive a "Cayenne S E" and sit into "Model X", apart from the acceleration, I feel demoted. The interior of Model X is just not yet in the same league.

Like it was already mentioned model x is competitive compared to other suv if you value performance, handling and ev.

What Tesla actually meant was that all the engineering and infrastructure efforts that go to ms and my will make model 3 better and more successful vehicle.
 

Tiger

Active Member
Oct 31, 2016
1,702
1,574
Estonia
Tesla never said it was overpriced, but that margins are higher on luxury vehicles. VW has a 2.9% profit margin on Skoda/Seat/VW, but on its Porsche brand it's 18%. Tesla's margin is 18% to 20%, which is comparable to Porsche.

Well, see how far people willing to go to match up with the margin for look and feel:
 

Tiger

Active Member
Oct 31, 2016
1,702
1,574
Estonia
Audi, Bentley, BMW, Jaguar, Mercedes all will be dead in near future like Nokia

Gotta have competition, like the Mercedes, otherwise you'll end up with monopoly (like in the past soviet) where you can sell people any kind of cars because there is too few alternatives.

Another garbage from SA shorter pretending you actually test drived it

Me not into stocks, just anchious to buy my fully loaded MX as soon as it's worth it. Just fix it.
 

polymathic

Member
Oct 30, 2016
273
387
Fairfax CA

We all know taste is something that cannot be argued, but to my eyes both those interior modifications look hideous. The Rolls Royce version looks like the inside of a humidor. It's astounding the effort and money people will put into defiling their vehicle. The sparse, modern interior of the Model X is a selling point for me. I'm pretty sure no Tesla will look like the inside of a Rolls or a BMW any time soon, and what is a selling point for me appears to be a deal killer for you. To each his own.
 

GaryH

Member
Oct 5, 2016
22
11
Purley, Surrey
It never ceases to amaze me that with any other car brand people tested rive them decide if they like what they have test driven and decide whether or not they want to buy it based on whatever criteria is important to them, it's called freedom of choice. As soon as Tesla is in the equation some people seem to think it has to be all things to all people which no car is.

I looked, I drove, I calculated, I decided simple, I have a 90D the car that I Chose and do not hanker after anything else. Horses for courses

If you don't like it move on
 
Oct 21, 2015
883
825
United States
"At least for me, if I drive a "Cayenne S E" and sit into "Model X", apart from the acceleration, I feel demoted. The interior of Model X is just not yet in the same league.[/QUOTE]
You're right... It's not in the same league... It's in a league of its own! We recently showed our friends our new X as they showed us their new Audi rs7... Everyone was much more blown away by our soft white interior vegan seats and display than by the Audi...
 

Tanflado

Member
Apr 18, 2016
143
15
Uk
Wow ! Chapter and verse on what's wrong with the car? You must have some time on your hands to take the time out to post all of that?? Not much going on in life at the moment I guess??


Seriously don't buy a Tesla if there's such a long list of "issues" move on and crack on and purchase another manufacturers offering if the MX doesn't tick the boxes for you,that's a lot of negatives you have highlighted there. I hope the Porsche , Skoda or whatever you end up purchasing lives up to your expectations as clearly the MX hasn't !
 
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bushburner

Member
Aug 25, 2016
327
212
new orleans, la
It never ceases to amaze me that with any other car brand people tested rive them decide if they like what they have test driven and decide whether or not they want to buy it based on whatever criteria is important to them, it's called freedom of choice. As soon as Tesla is in the equation some people seem to think it has to be all things to all people which no car is.

I looked, I drove, I calculated, I decided simple, I have a 90D the car that I Chose and do not hanker after anything else. Horses for courses

If you don't like it move on

Tesla fan boys are pretty bad.
 

Yinn

Active Member
Nov 15, 2016
2,100
1,919
Behind you
Tesla fan boys are pretty bad.

That's an understatement, approaching cult status in a lot of instances.

Wow ! Chapter and verse on what's wrong with the car? You must have some time on your hands to take the time out to post all of that?? Not much going on in life at the moment I guess??

Shall we say the same to those who posted glowing reviews? A review is a review, good or bad. I for one appreciate positive and negative ones to give me a true sense of what it may be for me.

Seriously don't buy a Tesla if there's such a long list of "issues" move on and crack on and purchase another manufacturers offering if the MX doesn't tick the boxes for you,that's a lot of negatives you have highlighted there. I hope the Porsche , Skoda or whatever you end up purchasing lives up to your expectations as clearly the MX hasn't !
[/QUOTE]

Is your expectation for every owner to not have issues with their car? I own two of these and my list of issues is extensive with each. You know what the great thing is? Tesla encourages feedback so they can improve as a company - carrying a "Fail Quickly" philosophy to create better products.

Recently I was at the Tesla SC and they inquired deeply about my thoughts of the MS vs the MX, of which I gave a very honest answer. Their response? "Please keep it coming. Without the feedback, we wouldn't be able to focus our resources and deploy updates to resolve these issues"

THAT, is why I bought a Tesla.

My most recent issue submitted to Tesla - I found the FWD annoying in my tight garage. The sensors overly sensitive, resulting in every opening of the door and trunk to be a frustrating experience. Surprise! 8.1 now brings customization to how that opens, and I didn't need to buy a new car or take a trip to the service center. I'm also guessing Tesla didn't do this implementation for just me, so I suppose other people had "issues" too.
 
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