The M3 terrifies BMW

[alseTrick]

Yet, if you compare it to a Leaf, Spark, Focus Electric, etc... it may be a rather compelling daily commuter car.

The most compelling of a bunch of uncompeling cars? What a compelling argument.

 

[alseTrick]

Another wasted effort from BMW ... 2017 BMW 740e Priced At $89,100, Arriving This Month At U.S. Dealerships

BMW has announced that its plug-in 740e xDrive iPerformance (that we will just go ahead and called the 740e from here on out) will start US deliveries to dealers this month. The 740e is the top of the line version for the 7 Series (all-wheel-drive), with price starting from $89,100 plus $995 Destination and Handling.

We should mention that a $4,500 federal tax credit applies to the purchase, and can be deducted from $90,095 MSRP cost; nonetheless, it will be one of the most expensive plug-in hybrids on the market today. BMW puts the official EPA range rating for all-electric mode at 14 miles (22.5 km) via the 9.2 kWh battery – of which some 6.5 kWh is usable.

View attachment 189990

14 miles on 6.5 usable kWh? That's pretty awful. Is that extrapalateable to 140 miles on 65kWh? Again, that's awful. Maybe removing the ICE increases that somewhat?

Either way, 14 miles wouldn't even be able to take me to work.

 

[EV-lutioin]

Not too good, really... Have a look HERE.

Jeez, and people call Teslas expensive.... imagine paying $46K for an itty bitty city i3! For $20K more you can have three times the car in a base Model S.

 

[Model 3]

For all we know, Chevy might already have plans on the drawing boards for EV Malibus, Impalas, Tahoes, etc., or at least comparable models with "new names".

Unusual S Sighting at Maumee Supercharger

A flock of zebras (6 GM cars with manufacturer plates and radio antennas and other gear with Zebra striped appliqué on front bumpers and a black support GM truck) stopped for lunch at the restaurants behind the supercharger. I had noticed a standard MI plate on a red MS that was charging. It, too, had a large whip antenna duct taped to the back deck lid and was part of the team that was testing something. Of course they wouldn't tell me anything more.

I do not know if it is true, or if it is, if they are testing BEV's or some sort of Autopilot or what... But maybe your more right then you think?

 

[Chopr147]

When they produce an electric Corvette then we'd know they're invested. haha

The only Corvette rumors I have heard is GM looking into a mid-engine Corvette. Engine being the key word.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Not me. Chevy/GM can eat dung for all I care. If they and other car manufacturers continue to slack, that's just more market share Tesla can acquire (though Tesla absolutely has to improve production quality and interior aesthetics/functionality, as well as continuing to increase service centers, sales centers and superchargers).

Making an ugly, boxy, weird EV is not progress. It's a half-arsed attempt at acting like you're actually doing something. It's solely being done to meet federal regulations and they are wholly hoping it fails to sell. That way they can go to the Feds and say, "Nobody wants these cars. We shouldn't have to make them anymore." Oh wait, they are literally already doing that and have been for years.

There's plenty of people here in Europe that would pick the Bolt over the Model 3 based on the shape of the car. Sedans are pretty unpopular most places. The most popular cars in Europe for the first half of 2016 are:

1 Volkswagen Golf 321,772
2 Renault Clio 211,139
3 Volkswagen Polo 204,227
4 Ford Fiesta 165,34
5 Opel/Vauxhall Corsa 153,001

The common denominator is that they are all small-ish hatchbacks. I think GM will sell every Bolt they manage to produce. Though maybe Europe will be a bigger market than the US. Maybe.

 

[SageBrush]

There's plenty of people here in Europe that would pick the Bolt over the Model 3 based on the shape of the car. Sedans are pretty unpopular most places. The most popular cars in Europe for the first half of 2016 are:

1 Volkswagen Golf 321,772
2 Renault Clio 211,139
3 Volkswagen Polo 204,227
4 Ford Fiesta 165,34
5 Opel/Vauxhall Corsa 153,001

The common denominator is that they are all small-ish hatchbacks..

Yup. This is why I earlier posted that despite the TM3 sedan design, I choose it over the Bolt. Design preference is just one priority among many.

 

[ecarfan]

I don't spend your money, and you do not spend mine.

A self-evident proposition that I'm sure we can all agree with.

So please refrain from the insults and 'weird-mobile' comments.

I did not intend to personally insult you or anyone else on TMC. I do think the i3 is an ugly car, and I see no reason to not be allowed to express that opinion. It is also my opinion that BMW deliberately made the i3 look so peculiar to avoid any chance of it competing with and pulling sales from their ICE vehicles. Obviously if BMW made an attractive long range BEV (as Tesla has done with every car they've built) that would take sales from BMWs ICE product line, and BMW does not want to do that.

 

[Chopr147]

I3 is the weirdest lego car i have ever seen

 

[SΞXY P100D]

There's plenty of people here in Europe that would pick the Bolt over the Model 3 based on the shape of the car. Sedans are pretty unpopular most places... maybe Europe will be a bigger market than the US. Maybe.

A compelling reason to release the Model Y ASAP!

 

[SageBrush]

I do think the i3 is an ugly car, and I see no reason to not be allowed to express that opinion.

My objection is to your extrapolation of your personal opinion to the larger markets.

As to your personal opinions about aesthetics-- sure, go ahead and write them up although I don't really understand why you think anybody else cares one way or another.

Mostly I am telling you, and by extension many others, that I would much prefer reading about the great attributes of Tesla cars rather than pitiful mud-slinging and name calling of the competition.

 

[MassModel3]

When they produce an electric Corvette then we'd know they're invested. haha

Yeah... Well the only way the Corvette will ever see a battery operated drive train is if it also came with monstrous subwoofers so the driver felt cool driving it, and the public still sees it as a muscle car.

I don't know if the production i8's have this, but it was certainly in the pre-release design:
BMW i8 will force fake engine noise and howl at pedestrians

 

[S'toon]

Yeah... Well the only way the Corvette will ever see a battery operated drive train is if it also came with monstrous subwoofers so the driver felt cool driving it, and the public still sees it as a muscle car.

I don't know if the production i8's have this, but it was certainly in the pre-release design:
BMW i8 will force fake engine noise and howl at pedestrians

Don't know if you can hear it outside the car, but they pipe it into the car interior.

 

[ecarfan]

Mostly I am telling you, and by extension many others, that I would much prefer reading about the great attributes of Tesla cars rather than pitiful mud-slinging and name calling of the competition.

I own 2 Tesla's, own TSLA, and as you may be aware am a vocal Tesla Motors supporters here on TMC. When I criticize the competition -- oh wait, there really isn't any yet -- I do it based on facts and also sometimes on aesthetics which are of course idiosyncratic and personal.

 

[Jeff N]

When they produce an electric Corvette then we'd know they're invested. haha

General Motors Trademarks E-Ray For Possible Future Electric Corvette

Of course, there isn't any known timetable or public commitment yet to make an electric Corvette.

 

[EaglesPDX]

You keep saying that Tesla ownership is about status,

It is certainly a big factor in Tesla sales.

1. 10-20% of Tesla buyers are not concerned about GHG but buy the Tesla for the usual status reasons, it's expensive, rare and fast.

1. For those who do care about GHG, owning a Tesla confers quite a but of status for being the ultimate in zero emissions and for all the regular status perks.

that BMW's 14 miles of electric range is sufficient

It is sufficient to cut one's GHG by 50 to 80%. The average commute is 12.6 miles, just on home charging the BMW 300e would cut commuting GHG by 50%. If a work charger, by 100%. Add in all the driving that is within 10 miles of the home, some 80% and a BMW300e driver could reduce their GHG significantly.

that Tesla fans and reservation holders are afraid of these paltry attempts by BMW to claim their cars are in any way comparable to a Tesla (electric-wise).

Nope just that a few Teslerati who are posting here including the orginal poster are terrrifed of the BMW300e as demonstrated by their frenetic posts and hysterical attacks on the BMW300e.

 

[Jeff N]

Ignore the ugliness, the fact that it has no long-distance charging network, and that it may not even be able to get close to its 200-mile range on the highway due to its (lack of) aerodynamics.

The Bolt EV is not any uglier than the millions of other cars that GM sells every year. Selling a utility-oriented hatchback was, in my opinion, a good choice for them given Tesla's focus on a sedan. Assuming GM hits their 200+ combined city/highway EV range the Bolt's highway range will likely be at least 180 miles based on the EPA ratings of the 30 kWh Nissan LEAF which has similar aerodynamics.

Even though GM says they aren't doing anything (yet), Mercedes and the VW group (Audi etc.) have plans for initial US sales of large battery BEVs starting in 2018. They both plan advanced spending over the next 2 years on CCS charging stations to support sales of those cars and the Bolt will very likely be able to use those stations as well (even if at a higher or non-discounted pricing policy).

According to a recent article, "At Audi, [Wayne] Killen has been tasked with forming a partnership of automakers to install 175 new chargers nationwide before Audi's e-tron quattro makes its debut in 2018. Killen says he wants to emulate Tesla's model of installing chargers "not just where electric vehicles are and drive," but across the country."

VW apparently has set aside $1.2 billion as part of its Dieselgate settlement with $800 million of that to be spent in my lovely state of California. As I understand it, large fractions of that will be spent on EV charging infrastructure.

Also, "In December [2015], Nissan and BMW announced a partnership to install 120 fast chargers across the country. The stations will be equipped with both CHAdeMO and SAE Combo."

The state of CA already has modest grant budgets for CCS charging sites and just dispensed ~$10+ million (I recall) for the next set of highway CCS and CHAdeMO combo stations.

That's all on top of the existing 780+ existing CCS charging sites nationwide although most are in metro areas.

The US government recently announced a near-term project to work with state and local governments to map out preferred highway routes for initial EV charging installation over the next several years.

Tesla didn't have any Supercharging to speak of when the first Model S went on sale just 4 years ago. They are now planning for huge increases in production volume and will be scrambling to match the charging availability. Tesla's CHAdeMO and future CCS adapters will help provide business for these new stations as they open in addition to the GM, MB, and VW cars.

I'm not worried about being unable to do road trips in my Bolt along the west coast of the US over the next several years until I get a Model 3 to join it in the garage.

 

[purplewalt]

It is certainly a big factor in Tesla sales.

1. 10-20% of Tesla buyers are not concerned about GHG but buy the Tesla for the usual status reasons, it's expensive, rare and fast.

1. For those who do care about GHG, owning a Tesla confers quite a but of status for being the ultimate in zero emissions and for all the regular status perks.



It is sufficient to cut one's GHG by 50 to 80%. The average commute is 12.6 miles, just on home charging the BMW 300e would cut commuting GHG by 50%. If a work charger, by 100%. Add in all the driving that is within 10 miles of the home, some 80% and a BMW300e driver could reduce their GHG significantly.



Nope just that a few Teslerati who are posting here including the orginal poster are terrrifed of the BMW300e as demonstrated by their frenetic posts and hysterical attacks on the BMW300e.

Unfortunately, you cannot seem to pick a single target and stick to it.
The OP comment is about Model 3 and the diversionary tactic that BMW took with the attached ads,

Model 3 is NOT about status.
Its starting price is $35K, about $10K LESS than the base model BMW 330e.
Ahem...
So it is less EXPENSIVE.

Once the first 100,000 of the first 400,000 already reserved Model 3s are in customer's hands and on the road it will not be that RARE.
The car that WILL be rare will be the BMW330e.

You are correct about one sole Item of your above list.
The Model 3 will be FAST.


Reviewing the rest of your statements, I believe they are pure hogwash.
The average commute in a small city might be less that 13 miles, but in a major American Metroplex or metropolitan area, it is certainly more like 40 miles.

Knowledgeable and thinking people are neither frenetic nor hysterical what the BMW 330e brings relative to the rest of the market, not now, and certainly not in the next 15 months when the Model 3 start being delivered to eager owners.
Personally I intend to be patient, wait and buy the best product for a reasonable price, and contribute ZERO CO2 to the atmosphere.
100% of the time.
And being a non-contributor to air pollution is NOT a status Item.
It is just rational in-depth thinking looking for the best long term solutions.

Should you decide to drive more than 13 miles a day, your BMW 330e WILL be adding CO2 to the air we all breathe.


Why not take some time and do some prudent research before adding another post of your unfounded nonsense to this thread.

 

[alseTrick]

There's plenty of people here in Europe that would pick the Bolt over the Model 3 based on the shape of the car. Sedans are pretty unpopular most places. The most popular cars in Europe for the first half of 2016 are:

1 Volkswagen Golf 321,772
2 Renault Clio 211,139
3 Volkswagen Polo 204,227
4 Ford Fiesta 165,34
5 Opel/Vauxhall Corsa 153,001

The common denominator is that they are all small-ish hatchbacks. I think GM will sell every Bolt they manage to produce. Though maybe Europe will be a bigger market than the US. Maybe.

None of that contradicts the Bolt being ugly, boxy and a typically weird-looking EV.

If people want a hatchback that badly, they will sacrifice the clear reality of the ugly, boxy, weirdness of it. Just like many people have said they are going to buy the Model 3 despite likely preferring the Model Y because they want an "affordable" long-range EV that badly. And that is everyone's personal prerogative.

However, if anybody buys a Bolt over a Model Y (once it's available), they are a fool. Period.

 

[alseTrick]

Give me a break with "conspiracy". There is no "conspiracy" in the tin-foil sense. But the car manufacturers are CURRENTLY lobbying the US government to REDUCE efficiency standards and are LITERALLY arguing that consumers don't want to buy them so they shouldn't have to make them. That is undeniable.

@Alketi, you are simply denying reality if you disagree with the above statement.