The M3 terrifies BMW

[Garlan Garner]

That is just a ludacris statement to make!
Sorry, couldn't help myself

I love it....I love it.

 

[CSFTN]

It was already banned by the federal government.

EPA: 'Coal Rolling' Is Illegal

Not to be pedantic ..... but ....
You may not be aware, but the EPA has no legal authority to tell any civilian end user what they can do with a product they've purchased legally, yes? Their authority is legally limited to regulating interstate trade and commerce, as it affects the air and water. They can restrict GM from selling or distributing a product without emission control, and can require GM to require its distribution network including dealers from selling or distributing vehicles which violate emission controls. But, they can't stop that civilian from removing them himself, or paying a mechanic from doing so later. They can, theoretically, prevent said driver from using the interstate, but that would require a spot check of the emission system on the on-ramp, which just doesn't happen. They can, in certain areas, require a vehicle inspection including an emission test, and restrict vehicles from passing the test if they fail but that's it. They cannot require all vehicles throughout the country undergo emission testing. Most (or maybe many) of us who live outside the crowded coastal areas do not undergo annual emission testing.

 

[CSFTN]

Isn't GM forced into the EV market by some mandate? I read where they have not truly been interested in EV.

In California (and maybe a few more states), yes (sort of). In the entire USA, no but they are subject to an increasing average cooperate MPG CAFE, which is essentially unachievable without either EVs, highly underpowered diesels, or highly underpowered hybrids.

Unless there's a technology revolution.

 

[JeffK]

They cannot require all vehicles throughout the country undergo emission testing. Most (or maybe many) of us who live outside the crowded coastal areas do not undergo annual emission testing.

Just to chime in that part of my state has vehicle emissions testing, in counties with the steel mills.

 

[Red Sage]

I expect that if it's asserted that somebody has "noted their intention".. that it's actually been.. uh... "noted".

Seems simple.

I believe that General Motors has EXPRESSED themselves through their actions, and I have taken note of that expression multiple times in the past 30+ years.

Izzat better?

 

[Red Sage]

That average vehicle sales price has about the same utility as the average miles per day number, albeit for a different reason:

The high average sale price includes expensive vehicle classes that do not x-shop the small TM3 sedan.

Correct. Every new car sale, from sub-$15,000 cheapos to plus-$3,000,000 hypercars, with their sale prices added together, and divided by the quantity of vehicles sold during a given time period. Typically there are more cars with a sale price between $22,000 abd and $24,000 than any other.

 

[Red Sage]

The Prius plug in did horrible in sales because the cost over the non plugin couldn't be justified. I don't think this BMW is a competitor with the M3 but it does give you pretty good mileage in a 3 series. I commute 12 miles each way to work so I could use a car like that and it's available now. If the M3 wasn't coming out soon I see nothing wrong with buying this car. I currently own a Prius and refuse to buy a Volt. There are not many options out there. The fact they compared this car to the Model3 was the mistake

The Ford Fusion Energi has more electric range, a 70 mile greater overall range, and costs a lot less money. Plus, it isn't a Chevrolet VOLT. That said... The Tesla Model 3 is bound to be better than them all. Because the Ford may not have the performance of the 330e... But the 330e certainly doesn't outperform the 340i.

 

[Frank99]

You may not be aware, but the EPA has no legal authority to tell any civilian end user what they can do with a product they've purchased legally, yes?

Dump a 55 gallon drum of used motor oil that you've purchased legally into the nearest river, and tell me how that "legal authority" thing works for you. A strict reading of the US constitution would find no mention of any authority of the Federal Government over the act - however, men with guns will show up to arrest you after the act, citing violations of federal law.

Thats not a statement of what should be, simply one of what is.

 

[zenmaster]

Exactly right, but to say that it has "nothing to do with Tesla" seems as absurd as if I said it was 100% due to Tesla. And yes, no doubt a lot of it is the shift to SUV's.

Shift to SUV and the 2-series. BTW, if you bother to take a look at BMW's world market and Tesla's world market, then you can understand my 10% statement (which you even highlighted).

 

[S'toon]

Not to be pedantic ..... but ....
You may not be aware, but the EPA has no legal authority to tell any civilian end user what they can do with a product they've purchased legally, yes? Their authority is legally limited to regulating interstate trade and commerce, as it affects the air and water. They can restrict GM from selling or distributing a product without emission control, and can require GM to require its distribution network including dealers from selling or distributing vehicles which violate emission controls. But, they can't stop that civilian from removing them himself, or paying a mechanic from doing so later. They can, theoretically, prevent said driver from using the interstate, but that would require a spot check of the emission system on the on-ramp, which just doesn't happen. They can, in certain areas, require a vehicle inspection including an emission test, and restrict vehicles from passing the test if they fail but that's it. They cannot require all vehicles throughout the country undergo emission testing. Most (or maybe many) of us who live outside the crowded coastal areas do not undergo annual emission testing.

Incorrect.

EPA's criminal enforcement program focuses on criminal conduct that threatens people's health and the environment. It was established in 1982 and granted full law enforcement authority by congress in 1988. We enforce the nations laws by investigating cases, collecting evidence, conducting forensic analyses and providing legal guidance to assist with prosecutions.

Criminal Enforcement | Enforcement | US EPA

Rolling coal is a violation of the Clean Air Act, and they have the legal authority to prosecute.

It is a violation of the [Clean Air Act] to manufacture, sell, or install a part for a motor vehicle that bypasses, defeats, or renders inoperative any emission control device. For example, computer software that alters diesel fuel injection timing is a defeat device. Defeat devices, which are often sold to enhance engine performance, work by disabling a vehicle's emission controls, causing air pollution. As a result of EPA enforcement, some of the largest manufacturers of defeat devices have agreed to pay penalties and stop the sale of defeat devices.

The CAA prohibits anyone from tampering with an emission control device on a motor vehicle by removing it or making it inoperable prior to or after the sale or delivery to the buyer. A vehicle's emission control system is designed to limit emissions of harmful pollutants from vehicles or engines. EPA works with manufacturers to ensure that they design their components with tamper-proofing, addresses trade groups to educate mechanics about the importance of maintaining the emission control systems, and prosecutes cases where significant or imminent harm is occurring

Air Enforcement | Enforcement | US EPA


.

 

[Bangor Bob]

I'm just going to put this here...

Hopefully whoever created this will keep updating it. The next 18 months ought to be interesting to watch.

 

[zenmaster]

I'm just going to put this here...

First it's due to the unveil date, now it's due to the announcement of the unveil date. Notice how the monthly points on the graph have basically same slope angle regardless of any events. This is like seeing shapes in clouds. Please tell me you don't do market analysis for a living.

 

[Bangor Bob]

Meh, I don't make or label them, I just report 'em.

To me the sales decline sort of coincides with when the price of gas started coming down, really. So yeah, probably mostly SUV substitution.

Still, if you're the US 3-series program manager, you're going to be a little unhappy these days. And the next 18 months are still going to be fascinating to watch...

 

[purplewalt]

I'm just going to put this here...

View attachment 190420

Hopefully whoever created this will keep updating it. The next 18 months ought to be interesting to watch.

Just checking
Recently BMW added a couple of designations

3 series for four door sedans
4 series for coupes and convertibles

Formerly BOTH of the above were denoted as 3 series

Does your data indicate cars that are strictly 3 series, or also include new 4 series into the numbers for the graph.

 

[zenmaster]

Still, if you're the US 3-series program manager, you're going to be a little unhappy these days. And the next 18 months are still going to be fascinating to watch...

That may be the case, but the amount of misleading info, fanaticism and hyperbole on these forums is ridiculous.

 

[ecarfan]

Dump a 55 gallon drum of used motor oil that you've purchased legally into the nearest river, and tell me how that "legal authority" thing works for you. A strict reading of the US constitution would find no mention of any authority of the Federal Government over the act - however, men with guns will show up to arrest you after the act, citing violations of federal law.

As they should. Good to know that the Constitution can evolve with the times and not stay stuck in an 18th century slave-holding misogynistic agrarian society. Thanks for posting.

Criminal Enforcement | Enforcement | US EPA
Rolling coal is a violation of the Clean Air Act, and they have the legal authority to prosecute

And thanks for clarifying.

 

[EaglesPDX]

By 2050 these hybrids would be extinct, a distant memory, like the way of the dinosaurs.

But without the hybrids NOW we don't make the goal of 80% reduction in GHG by 2050

 

[EinSV]

That may be the case, but the amount of misleading info, fanaticism and hyperbole on these forums is ridiculous.

May I politely suggest that it is greatly exceeded by the amount of denial, misinformation and outright nonsense about Tesla outside these forums.

I would include any suggestion that 3-series sales are not being significantly impacted by the Model 3 launch in at least the "denial" and "nonsense" categories.

 

[int32_t]

Dump a 55 gallon drum of used motor oil that you've purchased legally into the nearest river, and tell me how that "legal authority" thing works for you. A strict reading of the US constitution would find no mention of any authority of the Federal Government over the act - however, men with guns will show up to arrest you after the act, citing violations of federal law.

Thats not a statement of what should be, simply one of what is.

Men with ... guns? For polluting? For all our sakes, I hope this is hyperbole. A hefty fine would be sufficient, and would actually help with cleaning up.

 

[scaesare]

I believe that General Motors has EXPRESSED themselves through their actions, and I have taken note of that expression multiple times in the past 30+ years.

Izzat better?

Sure.

My point was to determine if this is something GM has explicitly stated, and if so where, as it's a rather big deal. It also would have significant implications for the discussions regarding how many batteries they might source per year, etc....

Certainly folks will draw conclusions from past corporate behavior, it's just useful to note them as such.