The new FSD computer vs HW2.0/2.5 with ONLY AP or EAP

[insaneoctane]

So we know all new Tesla's are coming with the new chip. Wouldn't you agree that as Tesla starts to make NN enhancements towards FSD, that the quality of the vehicles awareness and actions even for general AP/EAP will increase too? It seems like people with the new FSD chip (regardless of whether they have FSD or not) will ultimately have a better quality AP/EAP experience. I'm sure HW2.0/2.5 will continue to improve too, but they have different limitations and I just don't believe that the better hardware (full frame/ higher framerate/ etc) won't matter for AP/EAP. If that's the case, I wonder if that happens if AP/EAP owners might be compelled to upgrade to FSD to just get the HW...thoughts?

 

[Rottenapplr]

How can you tell if your car has one? I purchased mine April 2019 but it’s an inventory car with 164miles on it.

 

[diamond.g]

So we know all new Tesla's are coming with the new chip. Wouldn't you agree that as Tesla starts to make NN enhancements towards FSD, that the quality of the vehicles awareness and actions even for general AP/EAP will increase too? It seems like people with the new FSD chip (regardless of whether they have FSD or not) will ultimately have a better quality AP/EAP experience. I'm sure HW2.0/2.5 will continue to improve too, but they have different limitations and I just don't believe that the better hardware (full frame/ higher framerate/ etc) won't matter for AP/EAP. If that's the case, I wonder if that happens if AP/EAP owners might be compelled to upgrade to FSD to just get the HW...thoughts?

AP feature set won’t see improvement with HW3. EAP could feasibly see improvement, but no EAP folk are getting the new hardware (as of right now).

 

[animorph]

I bought the $2k FSD upgrade for my wife's Model 3 pretty much just to make sure AP worked the best it could, and would stay up to date longer. Of course FSD would be nice as well. It seems likely that AP2.0/2.5 will go the way of AP1, with limited development as Tesla moves on to HW3.

 

[OCR1]

I believe that HW3 will provide improvements to AP, as well as auto emergency braking, collision avoidance, and lane departure warnings. It should make the dancing cars more stable as well. I know there are a few members on this forum who think that none of these features will ever improve but I’m not sure what they are basing it on. AP really does not work very well in congested traffic. It still has a long way to go in my opinion and a much more powerful hardware platform gives the software team a lot more to work with to refine it.

 

[CAAD]

So we know all new Tesla's are coming with the new chip. Wouldn't you agree that as Tesla starts to make NN enhancements towards FSD, that the quality of the vehicles awareness and actions even for general AP/EAP will increase too? It seems like people with the new FSD chip (regardless of whether they have FSD or not) will ultimately have a better quality AP/EAP experience. I'm sure HW2.0/2.5 will continue to improve too, but they have different limitations and I just don't believe that the better hardware (full frame/ higher framerate/ etc) won't matter for AP/EAP. If that's the case, I wonder if that happens if AP/EAP owners might be compelled to upgrade to FSD to just get the HW...thoughts?

Yes agree, other assists that improve the experience of AP - is one reason I think price is high. Something they know the public doesn't yet.

 

[sreams]

AP feature set won’t see improvement with HW3. EAP could feasibly see improvement, but no EAP folk are getting the new hardware (as of right now).

I don't think he's asking if AP will get new features with HW3. The question is, will HW3 end up being better at executing the existing feature set?

 

[Sandiegodoug]

Only reason I bought the 2k sale fsd for my 3 and my wife’s x was the hope of getting new computers, which Elon said were included.

 

[Runt8]

I wouldn’t be surprised if people who purchased FSD will end up running a different HW3 NN even when they’re just using AP. And people who didn’t purchase FSD but have a car with HW3 would run the same NN as HW2.5 cars and not see any improvement.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if I was completely incorrect.

 

[OCR1]

I don’t see any scenario where a car could have HW3 and EAP. EAP was discontinued on 2/28/19 and HW3 did not begin production in vehicles until 4/12/19.

 

[mike123abc]

The real problem is that they eventually will have 2 code bases. One for the hardware 2.5 computer and one for the 3.0 hardware. Eventually they will stop supporting 2.5 except for emergency safety repairs. I suspect that it will be very soon. As soon as they have a stable version of EAP that works on 2.5 that will probably end main line development for the 2.5 computer. All new features will be on the 3.0 computer and be under the FSD umbrella.

Don't get me wrong, navigate on autopilot is beyond what I expected EAP to have (I did buy FSD). But I do not expect more EAP enhancements (especially since they do not sell it anymore).

 

[ngogas]

Only Elon and Tesla would know. All these are speculations.

 

[insaneoctane]

I wouldn’t be surprised if people who purchased FSD will end up running a different HW3 NN even when they’re just using AP. And people who didn’t purchase FSD but have a car with HW3 would run the same NN as HW2.5 cars and not see any improvement.

I also wouldn’t be surprised if I was completely incorrect.

what if HW3 NN offered additional safety over HW2.5?

 

[diamond.g]

what if HW3 NN offered additional safety over HW2.5?

Then upgrade to FSD to get the safety? Or buy a new car with HW3?

 

[Zero CO2]

I dont have AP or FSD and just noticed that for my 2017 Model S with AP 2.0 the prices are now

AP - $3K
FSD - $11K

the $11 K must include the new 3.0 HW upgrade .... thoughts?

 

[M109Rider]

So we know all new Tesla's are coming with the new chip. Wouldn't you agree that as Tesla starts to make NN enhancements towards FSD, that the quality of the vehicles awareness and actions even for general AP/EAP will increase too? It seems like people with the new FSD chip (regardless of whether they have FSD or not) will ultimately have a better quality AP/EAP experience. I'm sure HW2.0/2.5 will continue to improve too, but they have different limitations and I just don't believe that the better hardware (full frame/ higher framerate/ etc) won't matter for AP/EAP. If that's the case, I wonder if that happens if AP/EAP owners might be compelled to upgrade to FSD to just get the HW...thoughts?

Elon essentially states that HW 3 won’t be of any advantage until he releases FSD features that require it.
So to answer your question (as per Elon),
HW 3 will eventually matter for sure. But having HW 2.5 or 3 will be essentially the same, UNTIL he releases FSD features that HW 2.5 can’t really handle.

He hasn’t released those features yet.
Even when he does. If you have AP only, (with HW 2.5) you won’t need HW 3 to keep things running exactly as intended.

 

[OCR1]

I think the main reason this question comes up is when someone is contemplating buying an inventory car that was built prior to 4/12 versus ordering a car and waiting for it to be built. A number of members have given advice stating that it doesn’t matter if the car has 2.5 because either you will buy FSD and get the upgrade or you will not buy FSD and you will not need the upgrade.

I say this is highly speculative as nobody knows for sure what the software engineering team will come up with so why buy a 2.5 car when for the same price you can get a car with 3.0 installed.

 

[Three3]

Who knows but I don’t see the logic in Tesla maintaining two different NNs for HW3. Since driving on AP is essentially the same as driving on FSD sans lane changes it stands to reason that AP will use the same NN too (with certain features like lane changes etc. just turned off).

 

[insaneoctane]

In my case, since I have FSD, this is a moot point. I'm more curious about future differentiation with AP. Clearly, FSD will require HW3. The subtly that I'm trying to discuss here is that I suspect HW 2.0/2.5 owners with AP might find themselves with inferior AP performance. I'm speculating here, but here's my thinking:

• As NN improves, performance and safety will too. We know that HW3 will ultimately allow for more and more improvement
• FSD owners will expect to utilize NN improvements on freeway too, which is currently AP domain
• If Tesla allows for higher performance NN in FSD cars on freeway....wouldn't they allow HW3 owners (cars being made now) with only AP to access this improved performance for AP?
• If that happens, then HW2/2,5 owners will get inferior (whatever that actually is, who knows) performance out of AP vs HW3

 

[diamond.g]

In my case, since I have FSD, this is a moot point. I'm more curious about future differentiation with AP. Clearly, FSD will require HW3. The subtly that I'm trying to discuss here is that I suspect HW 2.0/2.5 owners with AP might find themselves with inferior AP performance. I'm speculating here, but here's my thinking:

• As NN improves, performance and safety will too. We know that HW3 will ultimately allow for more and more improvement
• FSD owners will expect to utilize NN improvements on freeway too, which is currently AP domain
• If Tesla allows for higher performance NN in FSD cars on freeway....wouldn't they allow HW3 owners (cars being made now) with only AP to access this improved performance for AP?
• If that happens, then HW2/2,5 owners will get inferior (whatever that actually is, who knows) performance out of AP vs HW3

So really the only folks that could stand to see improvement from HW3 NN would be EAP folks (NoA specifically). AP folks likely wouldn't see any improvements for what the AP NN is doing (not using NoA). That was what I was trying to say earlier, the lame part is to get that better EAP performance, it would basically require buying FSD. So it kind of makes the EAP performance improvement question moot.

I would be curious to know what part of AP (the one that they are selling now, not EAP) you think would improve with HW3.