They got some negative response for their "temporary lease not sell" approach...
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.co...ini-Cooper-First-You-Must-Qualify-to-Buy-One/
http://www.thetorquereport.com/2008/11/2009_mini_e_lease_starts_at_85.html
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The New RAV4 EV
- Thread starter EVNow
- Start date
They got some negative response for their "temporary lease not sell" approach...
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.co...ini-Cooper-First-You-Must-Qualify-to-Buy-One/
http://www.thetorquereport.com/2008/11/2009_mini_e_lease_starts_at_85.html
Here are the gory details. See the first pdf. Page 13 (C-4).
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/zevprog/zevregs/zevregs.htm
Starting in 2012, all manufacturers need to have actual zero emission vehicles to meet the ZEV requirements. Until then, they can be met with hybrids (PZEV, ATPZEV etc).
From 2012 to 2014 there is a 0.79% ZEV floor and from 14 to 17 that goes up to 3%. So, Toyota would have to sell some 4,000 EVs a year if their total sale is 500K in CA.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
The MiniE was clearly a converted test vehicle thrown out into the wild, and some people did complain about the lease only option. I expect the RAV4EV to be more of a production ready vehicle considering they already had one in the past. Since Nissan is already selling the Leaf they are setting the bar, if Toyota does lease only they immediately fall under the bar. Could happen but I think it would be a mistake.
This is true. Most of the people who ask me about my car are surprised and disappointed when I tell them that it's a lease-only vehicle and no longer even available on the lease program (all of the units are accounted for to my knoweldge).
I think most unfamiliar people don't appreciate how much of a "test" vehicle it truly is. Even having used it for a year and a half, I'd not elect to purchase it at the end of the lease if I were given the option. The model of hastily retrofitting an ICE vehicle by replacing its back seat with batteries is fine in the fun short term but nonsense for the long haul. I'll just manage without a vehicle at all until the Model S arrives.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The responses were probably blunted by the option to renew and also the BMW ActiveE. The big response to the EV-1 is because essentially ALL EV-1s were crushed and because GM led the 2002 lawsuit that dismantled the ZEV mandate. The same thing would have happened to the Ford Ranger EV and Toyota RAV4-EV if it were not for protests, which saved a decent amount of them.
Nor do I, although it might end up as a footnote somewhere.
( I also hope we don't get a documentary which says that a plug-in hybrid is the savior of the electric car industry. )
A lease might work for someone who just wants an EV while waiting for another EV to come along.
My question is how far on a charger are they going for?
The classic 100? Or will it have a Roadster box in the back for more miles? (what's it weigh without an engine, gearbox and gastank?)
Doug suggested a Model S battery under the floorboards but that would have to be a HUGE undertaking with a full redesign of the shell. Is it going to be a groundup car or a Mini-E add on arrangement? Is Tesla just suppling the battery and motor a la the Smart and Mercedes? Elon is on record saying ground up is the only way to do a car right so how much say do they have?
My question is how far on a charger are they going for?
The classic 100? Or will it have a Roadster box in the back for more miles? (what's it weigh without an engine, gearbox and gastank?)
Doug suggested a Model S battery under the floorboards but that would have to be a HUGE undertaking with a full redesign of the shell. Is it going to be a groundup car or a Mini-E add on arrangement? Is Tesla just suppling the battery and motor a la the Smart and Mercedes? Elon is on record saying ground up is the only way to do a car right so how much say do they have?
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
A RAV4 with it's higher ride height has more space to play with underneath, especially if they limit it to front wheel drive as the original. It would not be hard at all to fit a 150+ mile pack under there. Cost is of course the limiting factor.
Exactly. What price point will Toyota aim for ? My guess is Volt like rather than Leaf like. With the range being safely above 100 (125-150).
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Dave Kois has done RAV4 conversions with a 100 mile pack of TS cells under the vehicle while retaining the 4wd: http://www.evalbum.com/2330
That's a tough call. Tesla does seem to be working much closer with Toyota than any other automaker.
It would be great to get 200 miles out of a charge but what kind of premium is that going to command?
As a reference, although it's probably been mentioned, a base (2WD) dino-powered 2011 RAV4 starts at $23,000. A Limited RAV4 with navigation and an iPod connector shows up as $32,000.
As a reference, the 2011 RAV4 is either FWD or 4x4 (which is different than AWD).
http://www.toyota.com/rav4/specs.html
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OK, 4WD vs AWD, I wasn't trying to be too technical, just wondering if they would offer 2 driven wheels or 4.
They could have multiple electric motors and no mechanical connection between the front and rear driven wheels if they wanted to put in an extra motor.
Or they could use one electric motor and maintain the mechanical linkage of the "stock" Rav4 gas system.
My guess: it would be only two driven wheels. The battery pack might be under body and get in the way of any driveshaft they might otherwise want to use.
Also for cost and complexity reasons I bet they stay away from dual motors.
But I can't decide if FWD or RWD is more likely. The "Tesla way" would be RWD. (Like the Roadster, Smart and Model S for instance), but the Rav4 has a big engine bay up front where the PEM motor and differential would fit much more easily.
My guess would be FWD only, with Tesla reluctantly accepting that a non-Tesla branded vehicle could use their technology that way.
Just guessing though.
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