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"The S and X are better cars than the Model 3" - Elon
- Thread starter viper2ko
- Start date
Bumper
Member
I was a reservation holder for a 3 for about a year but could't take it anymore so I ordered a '17 MS 75 RWD instead. I hit that perfect window when it came uncorked but got money back because it didn't come with some premium features that became standard (air suspension, upgraded lighting). A few weeks later AWD became standard which I didn't want. So I got a faster car than the person who ordered a week before me (and got money back), and paid thousands less than the person who ordered after me who had no choice but to accept features I didn't want. I lived in bliss for a short time until they announced AP 2.5 and MCU2 were standard.
Some days I read about Sentry mode, and pole position and dash came and wish I had MCU2. But then I slap myself in the face and remind myself I couldn't afford to buy a MS the way they are currently offered in the configuration tool even with the recent price drop. I also remind myself of the dozens of improvements I have gotten OTA so far for free and look forward to many more to come. Innovation comes fast and furious with Tesla and you can't worry about the features you didn't get. I love my MS and come up with any excuse to drive it. Would I have loved the 3 if I waited a few months longer? Probably. Someday a refresh will compel me to trade Black Angus in for newer, but I feel like that day is several years away. God willing it will be a Roadster 2!
Some days I read about Sentry mode, and pole position and dash came and wish I had MCU2. But then I slap myself in the face and remind myself I couldn't afford to buy a MS the way they are currently offered in the configuration tool even with the recent price drop. I also remind myself of the dozens of improvements I have gotten OTA so far for free and look forward to many more to come. Innovation comes fast and furious with Tesla and you can't worry about the features you didn't get. I love my MS and come up with any excuse to drive it. Would I have loved the 3 if I waited a few months longer? Probably. Someday a refresh will compel me to trade Black Angus in for newer, but I feel like that day is several years away. God willing it will be a Roadster 2!
bandido
Member
V3 supercharging sounds great, but for real day to day, still waiting for top-view camera, HUD, Blindspot, CarPlay-or Similar. The onslaught of new cars that all have more creature comforts will soon be Tesla's concern. Also, they continue to alienate their current owners with big tech shifts and lower prices. I love my car, just picked up a used 16' S with EAP/FSD, but my son drives a 2 year old Chevy Bolt with more basic tech than my S. Go figure...
True, but he's driving a ... Bolt. I seriously considered the Bolt when it came out until i actually saw it. Got an S then and now have a 3.
The battery pack is the major area where S/X is using older technology compared to Model 3.
The other onboard electronics (MCU, AP) are likely basically the same (possibly with some packaging differences).
Model 3 was designed for simpler manufacturing, higher volume production and a lower price point.
When comparing an 3 to an S, the specs are going to look similar in many areas - just like they would if you were comparing low-end-to-high-end luxury ICEs.
S/X will have more capacity then 3/Y, because they are larger vehicles. S/X have the separate dashboard display while 3/Y will likely have a less expensive dashboard, with only the center console display.
At some point, Tesla will likely introduce a new battery pack capable of full V3 supercharging - and the recent marketing change to drop the battery pack size from S/X branding could be the first step in preparing for a pack change in the next year.
We had originally planned to purchase a Model 3 last year, to be the 2nd vehicle with our 2017 S 100D being the "large" vehicle. After looking at a Model 3 in a showroom and researching the improvements Tesla had made to the X since introduction (especially the 7 seat configuration with the folding middle row seats), we decided to go with the more expensive X 100D instead of a fully loaded Model 3 - and don't regret that decision.
Also suspect that going forward, the S/X models will be getting new features/improvements before the lower priced 3/Y.
The other onboard electronics (MCU, AP) are likely basically the same (possibly with some packaging differences).
Model 3 was designed for simpler manufacturing, higher volume production and a lower price point.
When comparing an 3 to an S, the specs are going to look similar in many areas - just like they would if you were comparing low-end-to-high-end luxury ICEs.
S/X will have more capacity then 3/Y, because they are larger vehicles. S/X have the separate dashboard display while 3/Y will likely have a less expensive dashboard, with only the center console display.
At some point, Tesla will likely introduce a new battery pack capable of full V3 supercharging - and the recent marketing change to drop the battery pack size from S/X branding could be the first step in preparing for a pack change in the next year.
We had originally planned to purchase a Model 3 last year, to be the 2nd vehicle with our 2017 S 100D being the "large" vehicle. After looking at a Model 3 in a showroom and researching the improvements Tesla had made to the X since introduction (especially the 7 seat configuration with the folding middle row seats), we decided to go with the more expensive X 100D instead of a fully loaded Model 3 - and don't regret that decision.
Also suspect that going forward, the S/X models will be getting new features/improvements before the lower priced 3/Y.
The announcement says "based on age" the S and X will charge at a faster speed, but doesn't specify further. I'm thinking they dropped the 75kWh pack option immediately before this announcement because it wouldn't get any benefit from SC3 (aside from non-shared chargers), and they couldn't sell a new car that isn't able to take advantage of the newest available tech (at least not without getting a load of crap from journalists and customers, for good reason). The 100kWh pack has a pretty high pack voltage, and enhanced thermal management, so it likely will be able to charge at a faster rate on a new SC3, but it remains to see HOW fast (I'm not holding my breath to see if it's as fast as the 3).
Based on EPA documents, it was obvious that Model 3 would support Supercharger V3 but S/X wouldn't. I wrote about that a few times in forums. Here is a message of mine from Oct 2017. See the section highlighted in red.
Whenever there was a topic about old Model S vs new Model 3, I mentioned this difference but because Supercharger V3 didn't exist yet, I don't think people cared much about it. Currently, even the latest S/X don't support Supercharger V3 but the oldest Model 3 does.
Whenever there was a topic about old Model S vs new Model 3, I mentioned this difference but because Supercharger V3 didn't exist yet, I don't think people cared much about it. Currently, even the latest S/X don't support Supercharger V3 but the oldest Model 3 does.
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Based on EPA documents, it was obvious that Model 3 would support Supercharger V3 but S/X wouldn't. I wrote about that a few times in forums. Here is a message of mine from Oct 2017. See the section highlighted in red.
Whenever there was a topic about old Model S vs new Model 3, I mentioned this difference but because Supercharger V3 didn't exist yet, I don't think people cared much about it. Currently, even the last S/X don't support Supercharger V3 but the oldest Model 3 does.
Do you think v3 superchargers will be labeled "model 3 priority" like they are with CCS in europe
Based on EPA documents, it was obvious that Model 3 would support Supercharger V3 but S/X wouldn't. I wrote about that a few times in forums. Here is a message of mine from Oct 2017. See the section highlighted in red.
Whenever there was a topic about old Model S vs new Model 3, I mentioned this difference but because Supercharger V3 didn't exist yet, I don't think people cared much about it. Currently, even the last S/X don't support Supercharger V3 but the oldest Model 3 does.
What do you see happening with the S/X? And how is Elon able to say that S/X will see charging improvements as well?
@viper2ko, no, I think all stalls at a station will be either V2 or V3. I think all busy stations (maybe 10% of existing stations) will be upgraded to Supercharger V3 and most new stations will be V3.
@DocZ, Tesla is pushing the limits. For example, Model 3 was supposed to support up to 184 kW but now it supports 250 kW for a few minutes. It looks like, Tesla tested it and decided that it's safe. Model S/X will receive a software update that increases the maximum power the car can accept from 120 kW to most likely 145 kW based on the blog post. That's 21% increase.
In addition, the battery will pre-heat before arriving at the Supercharger. That should help too. Based on my calculation, this can help up to 12 minutes for a typical Supercharge session if the weather is very cold and you arrive at the Supercharger without driving for too long. However, if you were already driving for 2 hours or if the weather is not very cold, it will have no effect. Normally, the car picks one of 3 pre-defined tapering curves based on temperature. You can see these here.
@DocZ, Tesla is pushing the limits. For example, Model 3 was supposed to support up to 184 kW but now it supports 250 kW for a few minutes. It looks like, Tesla tested it and decided that it's safe. Model S/X will receive a software update that increases the maximum power the car can accept from 120 kW to most likely 145 kW based on the blog post. That's 21% increase.
In addition, the battery will pre-heat before arriving at the Supercharger. That should help too. Based on my calculation, this can help up to 12 minutes for a typical Supercharge session if the weather is very cold and you arrive at the Supercharger without driving for too long. However, if you were already driving for 2 hours or if the weather is not very cold, it will have no effect. Normally, the car picks one of 3 pre-defined tapering curves based on temperature. You can see these here.
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Uncle Paul
Well-Known Member
Believe the real point is that all the cars are going to charge faster with the newer technology Superchargers.
It has always been the case that some Tesla charge faster than others. No reason for anyone to be smug about their charging rate. All the cars will benefit from this new technology. Some will benefit more, but it will be good for all owners.
We should be more like a Tesla family, instead of everybody strutting around feeling some how better than others.
It has always been the case that some Tesla charge faster than others. No reason for anyone to be smug about their charging rate. All the cars will benefit from this new technology. Some will benefit more, but it will be good for all owners.
We should be more like a Tesla family, instead of everybody strutting around feeling some how better than others.
Sunshine State
Automotive Enthusiast
We had two model 3 first minute reservations but after driving the 3 and then the performance 3 we decided that even though it has different battery chemistry (we could only take Teslas word and not sure if it makes any real world difference) it would be a big downgrade to go to a 3. The S and X have more advanced motors, higher quality interiors, more distinctive road presence etc. For the price, the 3 is a great car and even more so at the current reduced pricing but for me the new performance S and X pricing is even more enticing. Are the S and X worth twice as much as a comparable 3? That’s a tough call but certainly it’s obvious that the S and X are much nicer cars.
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I thought the 3 also had the more advanced motors. Referring to Elon saying they could last million miles
Sunshine State
Automotive Enthusiast
They have similar rear motors but a cheaper older tech front motor to keep costs down. I have read on this forum the reason the performance 3 is so much slower than the performance S or X off the line is if it was allowed to get immediate power off the line the front motor would not be smooth. (Or something like that) The million mile deal is marketing. They would put unlimited mile warranties on them like the S and X have if they 3 drive units were truly so reliable.
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According to someone working at tesla that I met recently, new packs and motors are coming for S and X with 400 mile range in the next couple months.
This info was given up without me asking, so I'm confident it is correct and makes even more sense with all the changes they have made recently to offerings and pricing
This info was given up without me asking, so I'm confident it is correct and makes even more sense with all the changes they have made recently to offerings and pricing
lookmtb
Member
This is exactly the opposite. The MS and M3 share very similar front motors, but the rear motor on the M3 is a completely different classification. It is more advanced in that it is a completely new architecture for an EV application and it is significantly more efficient than BOTH the small and large Model S motors.
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