"The S and X are better cars than the Model 3" - Elon

[Dutchie]

There’s speculation that even if the cells could handle it the bus and interconnect wiring in the car itself is not of sufficient size to handle the amperage necessary for 250kw.

Indeed speculation but no definitive confirmation. So you cannot say that they cannot handle 250 kW.

There is too much of that going on on the forum lately. Speculation and untruths like someone The other day said that hardware 2.0 cannot be upgraded to FSD and that hardware 2.0 uses different camera's than hardware 2.5. All not true.

 

[jerry33]

Let's assume that you, for instance, can get a low-end battery charge up to 150-200 miles (as Superchargers are nearly every 150 miles) in 15 minutes and it takes me 20. Woohoo! You can reach your destination five minutes earlier, and can flop down in front of the TV not missing ONE commercial! Doesn't do it for me.

The exception is most of the prairie states north-south routes. Many SCs are 200 or more miles apart. East-west is okay for the most part, but north-south leaves a lot to be desired. Then it's more like 45 minutes vs 10-15 minutes. Yes, it's better than it was six years ago when there were zero, but last year almost no progress was made. Supercharge.info shows no sign of permits either.

 

[ucmndd]

Indeed speculation but no definitive confirmation. So you cannot say that they cannot handle 250 kw.

Which is why I didn’t.

There is too much of that going on on the forum lately. Speculation and untruths like someone The other day said that hardware 2.0 cannot be upgraded to FSD and that hardware 2.0 uses different camera's than hardware 2.5. All not true.

The hw 2.0 cameras are absolutely different than hw 2.5. Different physical color filters.

Gotta be careful about spreading untruths in a post where you’re lamenting the spread of untruths.

 

[Cheburashka]

hardware 2.0 uses different camera's than hardware 2.5. All not true.

This is absolutely true. Also, 2.5 has redundant wiring in some places and a different front radar.

 

[Sunshine State]

This is exactly the opposite. The MS and M3 share very similar front motors, but the rear motor on the M3 is a completely different classification. It is more advanced in that it is a completely new architecture for an EV application and it is significantly more efficient than BOTH the small and large Model S motors.

Oh OK, I knew one of the mothers on the 3 was a cheaper, it makes sense that it is the rear because I read that when they only had rear wheel drive. Not sure what you mean by completely new for an EV, maybe new for Tesla but that is what just about everyone else uses. They use it because it is cheaper to build and they needed to cut costs. Newer doesn’t mean more advanced.

 

[Sunshine State]

lookmtb is correct, The rear motor on all the 3's is the "newer" tech motor, a permanent magnet switched reluctance motor which is more efficient and cheaper to manufacture but is less suited for performance. The motors in the S/X and fronts for the dual motor 3's is an induction motor.

The rear motor on the 3 is a permanent magnet motor, I just forgot which end it was on, newer doesn’t necessarily mean higher tech, more likely just cheaper because it is built to meet a budget.

 

[Sonic_78]

I am excited to see what Tesla does with the S and X. Although the next big announcement will be Y.

The S & X was the pinnacle of what Tesla could make while “bleeding” cash. Now that they are marking money, I do have big hopes for new top dogs.

 

[AMPd]

Yeah, kept re-reading those tweets. This tweet is in reply to a specific question about V2.
View attachment 384300


Whereas this tweet is kinda ambiguous. Is he referring to V2 or V3? He says all Tesla S/X/3 so makes me think he's referring to V2.
View attachment 384302

For ALL Model S’s? Even the crippled 90 packs which I’m an owner of?
Because I can’t charge faster than 86kW

Wish I had twitter to ask him about that.

 

[Dutchie]

This is absolutely true. Also, 2.5 has redundant wiring in some places and a different front radar.

Here we go again. Different wiring yes. NOT different radar

Tesla has a new Autopilot ‘2.5’ hardware suite with more computing power for autonomous driving

Please show me sources for different radar. If you can't stop telling this

 

[Dutchie]

Which is why I didn’t.



The hw 2.0 cameras are absolutely different than hw 2.5. Different physical color filters.

Gotta be careful about spreading untruths in a post where you’re lamenting the spread of untruths.

Where is your source then? If you cannot show stop telling that! Here are the exact differences

https://electrek.co/2017/08/09/tesla-autopilot-2-5-hardware-computer-autonomous-driving/

 

[Dutchie]

This is absolutely true. Also, 2.5 has redundant wiring in some places and a different front radar.

Where is your source?

Here are the exact differences

Tesla has a new Autopilot ‘2.5’ hardware suite with more computing power for autonomous driving

 

[Dutchie]

Tesla has been cagey with specifics, which makes it very likely that the current S/X will not get 250 kW. The v3 reveal was all Model 3s, the Tesla demo video is a 3, and the blog verbiage only mentions 250 kW with respect to the 3. The S & X are going to get an improvement over current charge rates, but I have to believe that if Tesla intended for them to get 250 kW anytime soon, they'd have specifically said so. It's just marketing common sense to include them in the discussion if they were getting the same rate as the 3.

Yes, all true but that doesn't make you certain that sit does not charge at 250kW. Only likely. This is just what I mean. Don't say "no it cannot charge @ 250kW". Because we don't know that for certain

 

[GHammer]

The rear motor on the 3 is a permanent magnet motor, I just forgot which end it was on, newer doesn’t necessarily mean higher tech, more likely just cheaper because it is built to meet a budget.

You are overly simplifying, it's not just a run of the mill permanent magnet motor that everyone else uses, it's a switched reluctance motor with permanent magnets to smooth out the torque ripple and cogging inherit in typical reluctance motor design. It really is a unique highly engineered product.
Tesla Model 3 Motor — Everything I've Been Able To Learn About It (Welcome To The Machine) | CleanTechnica

 

[jerry33]

For ALL Model S’s? Even the crippled 90 packs which I’m an owner of?
Because I can’t charge faster than 86kW

My understanding is all S and X, however, I don't believe every one will charge at the same rate. 100s will charge faster than 85s, but all will charge faster than they currently do. I don't really worry too much about the charge speed because usually by the time the pit stop and drink purchase are done, enough range has been accumulated to get to the next charge stop.

 

[Sunshine State]

You are overly simplifying, it's not just a run of the mill permanent magnet motor that everyone else uses, it's a switched reluctance motor with permanent magnets to smooth out the torque ripple and cogging inherit in typical reluctance motor design. It really is a unique highly engineered product.
Tesla Model 3 Motor — Everything I've Been Able To Learn About It (Welcome To The Machine) | CleanTechnica

Your over complicating it, it’s a permanent magnet motor. They use it because it’s cheaper and it works for the price target. I would expect any electric motor in an EV to be highly engineered and of course it’s unique, I don’t expect them to sell on Amazon anytime soon. They could have used AC induction motors but the car would have cost more, that was the point according to Tesla.

 

[Cheburashka]

Where is your source?

Here are the exact differences

Tesla has a new Autopilot ‘2.5’ hardware suite with more computing power for autonomous driving

Nope, you're wrong. These are differences in the actual compute unit but the cameras, radar, and wiring harness are also different.

 

[Dutchie]

Nope, you're wrong. These are differences in the actual compute unit but the cameras, radar, and wiring harness are also different.

I am happy to be corrected but give me a source.

 

[Cheburashka]

I am happy to be corrected but give me a source.

Plenty of teardowns on this forum that prove different wiring, cameras, and radar... not that hard to use the search function.




Undocumented | TeslaTap

"
Radar system is present in all cars built after late-September 2014 and until Fall-2017 were sourced from Bosch.

Vehicles with AP2.5 hardware, including all Model 3 cars, now use a radar assembly from Continental, the ARS410 CV"

AutoPilot 2.0 Cameras

Common color cameras use four filters – RGGB (red, green, green, blue) over cells to create a single color pixel (two green are used to increase the resolution/luminance

AutoPilot 2.5+ Cameras

The cameras used by the DashCam feature and Sentry mode are in full color. This includes the narrow front camera and the left and right side pilar cameras.

 

[AMPd]

My understanding is all S and X, however, I don't believe every one will charge at the same rate. 100s will charge faster than 85s, but all will charge faster than they currently do. I don't really worry too much about the charge speed because usually by the time the pit stop and drink purchase are done, enough range has been accumulated to get to the next charge stop.

I don’t either, but my wife is not a fan
Luckily for me this means an easy upgrade to a P100D!
All I have to do is mention faster charging and the P90D is as good as gone.

 

[Dutchie]

Plenty of teardowns on this forum that prove different wiring, cameras, and radar... not that hard to use the search function.




Undocumented | TeslaTap

"
Radar system is present in all cars built after late-September 2014 and until Fall-2017 were sourced from Bosch.

Vehicles with AP2.5 hardware, including all Model 3 cars, now use a radar assembly from Continental, the ARS410 CV"

AutoPilot 2.0 Cameras

Common color cameras use four filters – RGGB (red, green, green, blue) over cells to create a single color pixel (two green are used to increase the resolution/luminance

AutoPilot 2.5+ Cameras

The cameras used by the DashCam feature and Sentry mode are in full color. This includes the narrow front camera and the left and right side pilar cameras.

Thanks, have not seen this before. However, I think there is a misunderstanding of what is exactly part of the HW2.5 suite.

HW2.5 was introduced in August 2017. When I read correctly the new radar was introduced in fall of 2017 so this is not a feature of HW2.5 just that it was introduced around the same time. Cars produced in August 2017 (which is Summer) could have HW2.5 but the old radar.

As for the cameras. It is interesting and it might be the source that 2.0 cannot have Dashcam but is is unclear which camera uses what.