"The S and X are better cars than the Model 3" - Elon

[boaterva]

Well, getting back to the more general point of Elon's that the S and X are the 'premium' cars and supposed to be better (AND have all the same stuff as the 3 where possible), and leaving out the fact that perhaps that depends on the battery pack for v3 Supercharging (fine, sure), what about software improvements? Where the heck are things like the (setting, option) for 'horn honk' on car lock when you walk away? How about where the heck is Sentry Mode for the S and X? (Yes, I've posted about the lock signal several times...)

These sort of things are just nuts that nothing happens about them, we have article after article about Sentry/Dog mode, and what, WTF are they in general rollout?

At this rate, I'll expect to see a v3 Supercharger on the east coast in 2022.

 

[Hank42]

According to someone working at tesla that I met recently, new packs and motors are coming for S and X with 400 mile range in the next couple months.
This info was given up without me asking, so I'm confident it is correct and makes even more sense with all the changes they have made recently to offerings and pricing

As much as I'd like this to be true, I'm not so sure that just because the information was given up without you asking means it has a better chance of being true. I agree that the new pricing for the S might indicate a clearing of stock parts to pave the way for a newer S with different parts(battery/motor etc)

 

[wwu123]

According to someone working at tesla that I met recently, new packs and motors are coming for S and X with 400 mile range in the next couple months.
This info was given up without me asking, so I'm confident it is correct and makes even more sense with all the changes they have made recently to offerings and pricing

If this turns out to be true, it would totally make sense then why the drastic Model S/X pricing cuts happened, as it just seemed too sharp to be due to competition from the 3 or from other EV's coming to market. If they'd held the S/X pricing for, and then came out the new S/X pack and motors at the same prices, no one would buy the inventory using the current parts, and they'd end up having to discount them to move them anyway. And we'd see that the devaluation of the earlier generations is ultimately due to newer S/X tech coming out, if those newer ones come out closer to the prices before the March changes.

Again if this pans in a few months to be true, I wonder if that would make people feel better about this devaluation in that light, as more of a end of generation + end of quarter price cut, affecting only a few months worth of new sales.

 

[Dutchie]

Charge? Yes. Charge @ 250 kW? No.

Where did you read that they couldn't charge @250kW? I tried to get clarity on that part but haven't got any yet.

 

[Zaxxon]

Where did you read that they couldn't charge @250kW? I tried to get clarity on that part but haven't got any yet.

Tesla has been cagey with specifics, which makes it very likely that the current S/X will not get 250 kW. The v3 reveal was all Model 3s, the Tesla demo video is a 3, and the blog verbiage only mentions 250 kW with respect to the 3. The S & X are going to get an improvement over current charge rates, but I have to believe that if Tesla intended for them to get 250 kW anytime soon, they'd have specifically said so. It's just marketing common sense to include them in the discussion if they were getting the same rate as the 3.

 

[GHammer]

They have similar rear motors but a cheaper older tech front motor to keep costs down. I have read on this forum the reason the performance 3 is so much slower than the performance S or X off the line is if it was allowed to get immediate power off the line the front motor would not be smooth.

This is exactly the opposite. The MS and M3 share very similar front motors, but the rear motor on the M3 is a completely different classification. It is more advanced in that it is a completely new architecture for an EV application and it is significantly more efficient than BOTH the small and large Model S motors.

lookmtb is correct, The rear motor on all the 3's is the "newer" tech motor, a permanent magnet switched reluctance motor which is more efficient and cheaper to manufacture but is less suited for performance. The motors in the S/X and fronts for the dual motor 3's is an induction motor.

 

[ucmndd]

Where did you read that they couldn't charge @250kW? I tried to get clarity on that part but haven't got any yet.

There’s speculation that even if the cells could handle it the bus and interconnect wiring in the car itself is not of sufficient size to handle the amperage necessary for 250kw.

 

[diplomat33]

The real truth is that Musk kinda had to say that the S was better than the 3 because at the time when he said it, Tesla did not want anymore Model 3 reservations. If memory serves, this statement came before the Model 3 production ramp up when Tesla was behind on Model 3 production. So Tesla needed people to still buy the S to fund the ramp up and also did not want folks dumping the S to buy the 3 when they were struggling at the time to meet Model 3 demand.

I am sure the Model S will get some love soon now that the standard Model 3 has arrived. Once the Model 3 demand has been met, Tesla will need to push that Model S demand lever again.

 

[Tam]

...I don’t understood why they have not released a next gen X and S yet...

1) It costs money to do that so they may want to time it to see when will it be best for profit.
2) It's possible there's a contract for buying 18650 batteries and Tesla needs to wait for that contract to expire first.

 

[jerry33]

1) It costs money to do that so they may want to time it to see when will it be best for profit.
2) It's possible there's a contract for buying 18650 batteries and Tesla needs to wait for that contract to expire first.

Point one sounds reasonable. Point two, not so much, Tesla just renewed the Panasonic agreement a few weeks ago. I doubt there will be a refresh this year, possibly next year. Four or five years is the usual body refresh schedule. To do a body refresh earlier would mess up the equipment depreciation and cause write-offs.

 

[diplomat33]

And let me just add that knowing Tesla, when they do finally do a refresh of the Model S, it will probably be a wowzer of a refresh. It could include better batteries for ranges close to 400 miles, a super slick new interior, increased performance, additional hardware for FSD, plus some other goodies I have not thought about. We are all going to drool with envy when we see the new Model S. Trust me!

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

Let the model 3 owners enjoy their honeymoon. When Y comes up, 3 will be left behind. Then they will join S and X owners complaining about Elon

Look. I understand technology evolves. No way older S and X can get all the new features. The issue is Elon. The guy keeps lying and set incorrect expectations. That is what pissing people off

I don’t understood why they have not released a next gen X and S yet. High end models are the one giving him the best margin. Besides their size, give me one reason why I should buy X or S today.

Profit = volume x margin

They haven't done a next gen S and X, because
1) they aren't yet through the S and X cell 18650 contract
2) they can't afford the investment required to make significant changes
3) they aren't good enough at luxury (yet?) to handle the competition coming in the higher price ranges.

But Tesla has free rein for now in the Entry Level Premium space with the (headline) price of the SR actually being comparable to the coming batch of long-range BEVs, and with Tesla being able to provide more supply to the market. So that's where their focus will be.

The mid-high end premium EV segment will become a lot smaller as the Model 3 and Model Y arrive and people don't have to pay as much to get decent range and performance.

 

[iRia]

And let me just add that knowing Tesla, when they do finally do a refresh of the Model S, it will probably be a wowzer of a refresh. It could include better batteries for ranges close to 400 miles, a super slick new interior, increased performance, additional hardware for FSD, plus some other goodies I have not thought about. We are all going to drool with envy when we see the new Model S. Trust me!

I really hope they don't go too minimalist like the 3. I like the dual screens of the S.

 

[boonedocks]

Surely when he said that Elon meant S & X are better “for the bottom line”

 

[Cheburashka]

I really hope they don't go too minimalist like the 3. I like the dual screens of the S.

I think Elon has mentioned that when the car drives itself (6 months maybe, 12 months definitely) you don't need a dash, so I wouldn't hope for it.

 

[diplomat33]

I think Elon has mentioned that when the car drives itself (6 months maybe, 12 months definitely) you don't need a dash, so I wouldn't hope for it.

Yes. And considering that when the Model S refresh does come, Tesla will be even closer to FSD than they are now, it is even more likely that Tesla will design the S with FSD in mind. So it is more likely that Tesla will get rid of the dash and just go to just a center screen like the Model 3 has.

 

[buyer123456]

I thought they will be able to after a software upgrade in the near future?

I read that v3/250kW charging requires liquid cooling to the circuitry, so it is not something a OTA can solve without hardware upgrades.

 

[roblab]

Well, I think it's assumed that the current Model S/X are older technology, but we don't really know that for sure. Folks were saying upon its release that the Model 3 had a lot more tech in both computing and battery design compared to the S/X at the time. If the assumption that current S/X will not utilize V3 Supercharging than I would join you in your criticism, but right now we just don't have the facts. I wouldn't be surprised if there's a future OTA update for 2018 and newer Model S/X to unlock some faster charging rates.

You know, very very very few people use supercharging more than a few times a year. Those that bought while knowing they had no home or apartment charging will always have problems, but I cannot see how someone can put out unverifiable claims that the 3 is better than the S, and by this I mean the Current S: 335 miles of range (more than the 3 at 310) and 0-60 at 4.1 for the AWD LR (4.5 for the 3). For a family sedan this is pretty awesome. Sure, the 3 is smaller, lighter, and more cheaply made (coils instead of air suspension, for example), but charging speed for the large majority of us is still to charge at <9kw at home overnight, and the car is still somehow full in the morning.

My experience with Supercharging is that I can usually continue my trip after about 20 min of charging, which time leaves me rushed to hit the bathrooms and buy a cup of coffee. Nearly everyone I know has similar findings.

Let's assume that you, for instance, can get a low-end battery charge up to 150-200 miles (as Superchargers are nearly every 150 miles) in 15 minutes and it takes me 20. Woohoo! You can reach your destination five minutes earlier, and can flop down in front of the TV not missing ONE commercial! Doesn't do it for me.

 

[e-FTW]

If what Elon tweet is accurate (that they're getting rid of peak power sharing between stalls), V2 Superchargers at 145 kW plus new battery conditioning is pretty nice free upgrade for S and X.

I have been going back and forth not this, as one could interpret his tweets either way. He keeps mixing V3 in there.
I do hope V2 is moving away from power sharing, as most non-Tesla-maniacs know nothing about it, nor should they be expected to.
Plug-in should equal the fastest charging your car is capable of at that time.

 

[commasign]

I have been going back and forth not this, as one could interpret his tweets either way. He keeps mixing V3 in there.
I do hope V2 is moving away from power sharing, as most non-Tesla-maniacs know nothing about it, nor should they be expected to.
Plug-in should equal the fastest charging your car is capable of at that time.

Yeah, kept re-reading those tweets. This tweet is in reply to a specific question about V2.

Whereas this tweet is kinda ambiguous. Is he referring to V2 or V3? He says all Tesla S/X/3 so makes me think he's referring to V2.