Not true. The 3 is actually safer than S and X.
Model 3 achieves the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by NHTSA
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"The S and X are better cars than the Model 3" - Elon
- Thread starter viper2ko
- Start date
Not true. The 3 is actually safer than S and X.
Model 3 achieves the lowest probability of injury of any vehicle ever tested by NHTSA
People buy a Tesla for the technology. Not because it is "expensive looking." By that metric, you can say that a Mercedes S Class is "expensive looking" but few of us would buy an S Class.
The issue is that the Model 3 has more advanced batteries, charging technology, climate control, and other attributes than what is supposed to be the Tesla flagship. I can genuinely see many current Model S buyers considering a Porsche Taycan for their next car unless Tesla implements a much needed update/refresh for the Model S.
Hopefully they will also fix thw media player for USB media playback so we can listen to our music in our cars...
For anyone currently owning a 2016+ Model S, there is little reason to buy the current Model S as it's the same car for the most part and for some of us the current Model S is a worse car because you can no longer buy a Model S with a sunroof. What a horrible decision to remove the sunroof option.. I really hope they bring that back.
Only under conditions tested. S and X, being heavier are safer overall.
If you look you can find Musks quote about as well.
Has the Insurance Institute tested the Model 3 yet? If not, it will be interesting to see how the comparison of Tesla models looks after they do. Their tests include conditions not tested by NHTSA.
AFAIK the MS internal cabling is made of copper though, as opposed to aluminium in the M3, a material with 58% higher resistivity, which would explain the thicker cables to take the same current load.
If M3 nominal pack = 400V = same as 100D pack
250kW/400V = 625A
Then, taking your cable diameters to be accurate:
ø20mm = 314mm^2 of aluminium rated for 625A = 1.99A/mm^2
ø17mm = 227mm^2 of copper, at 625A = 2.75A/mm^2
= a mere 38% increase in current density, i.e. should be easily handled by the lower resistivity copper.
However, if the newer 18650 cells are (as I suspect) essentially the same chemistry as M3 21700 then the charging bottleneck in MS is likely to be the battery cooling system itself, which with one continuous ribbon is less efficient than the M3 with several parallel coolant flows. Nevertheless am hopeful to see a v3 SuC max rate of 185kW for 0..55% SoC for 100D pack, which would still be a fantastic boost roughly halving the typical charge time to 80%!
Even on v2 SuC, if the charging profile with pre-warming holds at 145kW for 0..60% SoC, that should probably cut 25% off the 10..80% charge time, i.e. reducing it by ~12min to 33min, which will be great already!
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tekn0wledg
Member
I love my Model X but I feel like Tesla has let me down. Specifically, in the realm of software updates. We're nearly four months into 2019 and the Model 3 owners are getting updates weekly it seems, and my Model X is still sitting on 2018.50.7.
Great maths! Thanks. What do you think about the 75 pack in this case? It should benefit some as well.
tekn0wledg
Member
Dborn
Confirmed
There will apparently be an update for the at least the S fleet in about 2 weeks to fix mainly the Spotify connection issue which is quite variable. Mine is now connecting but it wasn’t a week ago. This from the service centre in Sydney when i went in for my airbag recall visit today.
Current max 100D = 118kW
Current max 75D = 95kW = 20% lower
80% of aspirational 185kW for 100D = 148kW, then deduct another 10% to account for the improved cooling in 100D pack not available in 75D = 133kW
So, yes, as the cell chemistry and internal cabling are essentially identical to 100D I think recent 75D with the new pre-heated profile will probably handle ~135kW on v2 SuC from 0..55% SoC, which would still be a 42% step up from the current max of ~95kW. It probably will not get much benefit from v3 though, apart from having a dedicated stall.
paul.scott
Member
Yes we can take advantage of the v3 charger when the software update rolls out. Yes we will get faster charging as a result. The battery preconditioning will work with S and X while you are driving to a charger which gives us some additional charging speed. What was never made clear is what the max charging speed is of the S or X and can that be increased in the future with a software upgrade. Yes they highlighted charging speed for the 3 which means 3's charge faster and get in and out quicker helping reduce congestion but it is still unclear what the max charging speed of the S and X are.
Sg911
Member
The Model S refresh is gonna have to be that serious of an upgrade, since the Taycan is coming. Tesla is gonna need a significant differentiator to draw all those Porsche Audi Jaguar buyers that are jumping ship , and to draw new blood. After self driving, battery efficiency of the Competition evolves , and the charging networks are up for everyone else via Electrify America, and Charge point. What reasons would we buy a Tesla ...besides we like the brand?And let me just add that knowing Tesla, when they do finally do a refresh of the Model S, it will probably be a wowzer of a refresh. It could include better batteries for ranges close to 400 miles, a super slick new interior, increased performance, additional hardware for FSD, plus some other goodies I have not thought about. We are all going to drool with envy when we see the new Model S. Trust me!
So much doom and gloom. When do you think Electrify America will come even close to Tesla's SC infrastructure? In two days? Supercharges are constantly getting built across the world, it's not like Tesla is standing still. I am sure Elon and Tesla are aware of everything you're mentioning, why panic? Model S refresh WILL happen, it has to. I'd still rather have Tesla focus on 3 and Y this year. And really, chargepoint? Come on.
People are making Taycan look like some incredible machine with two million miles of range, beautiful looks, and price of $2000 that will eradicate every Tesla ever sold. IMO, Taycan front looks worse than a Model 3, I wouldn't buy it no matter what battery tech it had.
Wake me up when Porsche/VW/Audi release *good* cars for every segment and actually start building them. E-Tron is a joke. I-Pace, lol.
Only 2.5 and some 2.0 cars are getting updates.
The impatience comes from those updates bringing also features that can work on any Tesla, also Classics and AP1 but for some reason, these have been left out of update pushes for a while. I guess Those updates will eventually be sent to all but indeed time passes by and all those owners that were supportive of Tesla (very) early on are somehow left unattended.
Talking about stakeholders management I guess
The other brands don't have a fast-charging network already in place. That gives Tesla a big advantage, at least for the next year.
Take a look at what you have to do to start charging on those connectors (North America only). There are about ten steps. It will be five minutes before the charging starts, maybe longer in those places where you have to go inside to get a code to type in.
That’s a lot of catchup to do and tesla is not sitting still and watching.
So that will for sure take a few years.
But down the line, you are right, there will be more choices.
Exactly like a ICE buyer has now: why chose a BMW over an Audi or a Ford or whatever. Just a matter of taste and choices.
One might have forgotten about this but Tesla’s mission is to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy.
And having the competition switching to building and selling compelling EV cars is a success for Tesla.
I’m sure Tesla will in that future market still have a place as it has its own style and aficionados. Like me for sure.
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