The used market is confusing

[Emaz]

Purchased another "used" 2015 Model S85D from used car dealer in Dayton OH with 73000 miles for under $40K. Car still has the 8/yr-100,000 mile warranty on the battery and drive train and charges full to 260 miles of range. Only spent $1700 on some needed suspension work to make the car perfect.

Glad you mentioned this. I've been getting the impression that high-mile Teslas are very risky.

 

[Sunshine State]

Good input, thanks. I also want to confirm what you said about warrantees.

I also want to understand what people mean about pre-refresh. What happened in the refresh? Does that mean stay away from the oldest models?

The refresh Model S’s most visible change, on the outside, was the removal of the nose cone, different rear bumper and new body color rocker panels. The interiors received new consoles and also updated seats around the same time. According to several Tesla Service Techs the biggest changes were not visible and consisted of loads of hardware updates throughout the cars. On refresh cars if you remove the under hood isolation panels they look vastly different from the old nose cone cars. Refresh cars also received updated batteries for the 60/70/75 versions which all got the newer 75 batteries that were software locked if rated anything less than their 75 350v capacity. The 90 batteries which were available in the late pre-refresh cars received many revisions in their individual cell chemistry as did the 75 version batteries after the refresh. In my opinion the refresh 2016 Model S 90D cars are a bargain because of their very economical pricing, 400v performance and charge speed, excellent range, 8 year unlimited mile battery drivetrain warranty, and free lifetime Supercharging and Data all in a car that looks just like the current new ones.

 

[Emaz]

The refresh Model S’s most visible change, on the outside, was the removal of the nose cone, different rear bumper and new body color rocker panels. The interiors received new consoles and also updated seats around the same time. According to several Tesla Service Techs the biggest changes were not visible and consisted of loads of hardware updates throughout the cars. On refresh cars if you remove the under hood isolation panels they look vastly different from the old nose cone cars. Refresh cars also received updated batteries for the 60/70/75 versions which all got the newer 75 batteries that were software locked if rated anything less than their 75 350v capacity. The 90 batteries which were available in the late pre-refresh cars received many revisions in their individual cell chemistry as did the 75 version batteries after the refresh. In my opinion the refresh 2016 Model S 90D cars are a bargain because of their very economical pricing, 400v performance and charge speed, excellent range, 8 year unlimited mile battery drivetrain warranty, and free lifetime Supercharging and Data all in a car that looks just like the current new ones.

Was the refresh 2014?

 

[cucubits]

Was the refresh 2014?

Mid 2016

 

[bkp_duke]

The refresh Model S’s most visible change, on the outside, was the removal of the nose cone, different rear bumper and new body color rocker panels. The interiors received new consoles and also updated seats around the same time. According to several Tesla Service Techs the biggest changes were not visible and consisted of loads of hardware updates throughout the cars. On refresh cars if you remove the under hood isolation panels they look vastly different from the old nose cone cars. Refresh cars also received updated batteries for the 60/70/75 versions which all got the newer 75 batteries that were software locked if rated anything less than their 75 350v capacity. The 90 batteries which were available in the late pre-refresh cars received many revisions in their individual cell chemistry as did the 75 version batteries after the refresh. In my opinion the refresh 2016 Model S 90D cars are a bargain because of their very economical pricing, 400v performance and charge speed, excellent range, 8 year unlimited mile battery drivetrain warranty, and free lifetime Supercharging and Data all in a car that looks just like the current new ones.

I concur. This is what I'm eyeing for my next S.

A small but decent number of these also came with AP 2.0, which makes them an absolute steal.

 

[Gu$ G]

I concur. This is what I'm eyeing for my next S.

A small but decent number of these also came with AP 2.0, which makes them an absolute steal.

These posts were very insightful. Anyway to tell if the car had AP 2.0 from an ad, pictures or VIN (if not on Tesla's website)?

I agree with the OP that the used market is confusing. Most confusing/amazing is the ridiculously high resale value of the Model 3. They're being sold used by non Tesla dealers for nearly as much as when they were new?

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

Have you looked at sites like

Tesla US New CPO and Used cars including MS MX and M3

ev cpo is the usual favourite around here but they only list Tesla cars, whereas Tesla Info list Tesla, OnlyUsedTesla and a load of other sellers all side by site. You can search by location as well.

On the "do Tesla sell CPO" question, Tesla have a flag int he data to say whether a car has had the CPO Refurb (you can search on that flag on Tesla info too) so the fact Tesla have a flag to me says they still do, what they don't have is a great CPO programme only really looking at mechanical issues and not bodywork, they still do something though.

Its good to have choices on where to look.

 

[GoneElectric]

Even with this thread I’m still confused by the used market.

 

[cucubits]

Even with this thread I’m still confused by the used market.

If you find one you like and you can afford it without regretting the purchase, do it!

This is probably the normal flow of things: until I found mine, I used to check daily/hourly Tesla used cars, forums and other sources. Once I found one I was happy with, I stopped looking and all is well. This marked is indeed crazy and it'll constantly change, especially with Tesla messing with included perks (free supercharging, premium connectivity, etc).

 

[GoneElectric]

If you find one you like and you can afford it without regretting the purchase, do it!

This is probably the normal flow of things: until I found mine, I used to check daily/hourly Tesla used cars, forums and other sources. Once I found one I was happy with, I stopped looking and all is well. This marked is indeed crazy and it'll constantly change, especially with Tesla messing with included perks (free supercharging, premium connectivity, etc).

that’s my plan! Once I wrap my head around the differences of the auto pilot, depending where I look, sometimes I see the variations as ap1 ap with convenience features, standard ap, etc . Then I thought I saw something about certain issues with bubbling on certain years. Then saw someone say late 2014 onward should be decent. I see these Tesla’s everywhere , and would like to find one that “check the boxes” I’m looking for. AP1 would be sufficient, panoramic roof/sun roof, that’s about it. Would be content with Prius / Prius prime but rather just go full ev. Currently ride an electric assisted bicycle to work in lieu of my ice car .

 

[GoneElectric]

Think a used MS would be a good fit, especially if it had rear jump seats, but at certain times just think a new m3 would be a better buy. Maybe just ride the bicycle a little longer and put a deposit down on cybertruck. No rush but when I see something, ready to buy.

 

[cucubits]

a used MS would be a good fit, especially if it had rear jump seats, but at certain times just think a new m3 would be a better buy

I sat on this very pickle for such a long time. I've had days when I was a click away from ordering a new 3 but in the end I went with a 2016 facelift S for a number of personal choices (to mention a few: overall looks, quieter interior, smoother ride, rear hatch, dash screen)

 

[bkp_duke]

...That's not the only difference.

Tesla has been playing games lately with the Free Unlimited Super Charging (FUSC) and how it transfers as well, Previously, all cars that had it would transfer free from previous owner to new owner. Now, for whatever reason, they have been pulling this from used cars that they sell that previously had them. This means that most all used cars you find that have/had FUSC will transfer to you for free as long as it's NOT sold by Tesla. They've been adding it to some cars here and there (seems mostly like higher capacity cars) but for the current buyer only and it doesn't transfer to the next buyer. This means that, as of this post, you MAY get FUSC on a used Model S bought from Tesla so long as it specifically states it on the listing page for that exact car. You won't be able to transfer that to the next buyer though.

Confusing but Tesla really doesn't want to be in the used car business and does all sorts of senseless things on a whim to try to prevent it but people just seem hell-bent on trading their cars to Tesla even for pennies on the dollar of what they're actually worth. Tesla feels obligated to "steal" trade-ins if they offer insulting values and people still take them up on it. I'm not saying you can't find a good deal on a used car directly from Tesla but I am saying that it's become increasingly difficult and there are now tons of caveats that you need to be aware of before you buy.

It's not just FUSC they are playing this game with.

I bought a P3D sold at auction with EAP. I have the config list that verifies that Tesla sold it with EAP in the config. Once the Auction was completed and the used car dealer had the car, they turned off EAP and reverted it to Basic Autopilot. No amount of b!tching and complaining has gotten them to turn it back on.

 

[John Surek]

...That's not the only difference.

Tesla has been playing games lately with the Free Unlimited Super Charging (FUSC) and how it transfers as well, Previously, all cars that had it would transfer free from previous owner to new owner. Now, for whatever reason, they have been pulling this from used cars that they sell that previously had them. This means that most all used cars you find that have/had FUSC will transfer to you for free as long as it's NOT sold by Tesla. They've been adding it to some cars here and there (seems mostly like higher capacity cars) but for the current buyer only and it doesn't transfer to the next buyer. This means that, as of this post, you MAY get FUSC on a used Model S bought from Tesla so long as it specifically states it on the listing page for that exact car. You won't be able to transfer that to the next buyer though.

Confusing but Tesla really doesn't want to be in the used car business and does all sorts of senseless things on a whim to try to prevent it but people just seem hell-bent on trading their cars to Tesla even for pennies on the dollar of what they're actually worth. Tesla feels obligated to "steal" trade-ins if they offer insulting values and people still take them up on it. I'm not saying you can't find a good deal on a used car directly from Tesla but I am saying that it's become increasingly difficult and there are now tons of caveats that you need to be aware of before you buy.

I have to agree with Ostrichsak on trade offers given by tesla, I just recently tried to trade a 2012 S85 and they only offered 18K but they would sell if for 27 to 29K

 

[bkp_duke]

I have to agree with Ostrichsak on trade offers given by tesla, I just recently tried to trade a 2012 S85 and they only offered 18K but they would sell if for 27 to 29K

At 18k, you should reach out to a dismantler. The pack alone is worth that much.

 

[Chaserr]

It's not just FUSC they are playing this game with.

I bought a P3D sold at auction with EAP. I have the config list that verifies that Tesla sold it with EAP in the config. Once the Auction was completed and the used car dealer had the car, they turned off EAP and reverted it to Basic Autopilot. No amount of b!tching and complaining has gotten them to turn it back on.

That is just plain old theft unless they can prove an owner sold it back to them. It's goods on the bill of sale. Owners can remove property while in possession of the car but if Tesla was not the owner after it was sold new, they can't remove it, and unlike other goods like wheels or a stereo the dealer can't remove it themselves - Tesla removed it without the owners' permission. Which is the legal definition of theft.

Bitching and complaining won't make them return what was stolen but a police report and a letter from your attorney may help.

 

[John Surek]

dismantler? no way the car is damn near perfect. the MCU is still working fine I got an new battery 1 year ago under warranty. it got repainted/repaired after a hail storm here in Colorado. so I will list it on some web sight first just checking here first.

 

[bkp_duke]

That is just plain old theft unless they can prove an owner sold it back to them. It's goods on the bill of sale. Owners can remove property while in possession of the car but if Tesla was not the owner after it was sold new, they can't remove it, and unlike other goods like wheels or a stereo the dealer can't remove it themselves - Tesla removed it without the owners' permission. Which is the legal definition of theft.

Bitching and complaining won't make them return what was stolen but a police report and a letter from your attorney may help.

Tesla bought the car back as a lemon buyback (they could not repair a door ding within the 30-day lemon law window and instead bought the car back from the first buyer), and I got a scorching deal on it. After the buyback, they sold it at auction to a used car dealer, and that is who I purchased it from.

Within 1 hour of buying the car, I took it to the nearest service center for a SW upgrade (was still on V9), and they printed out the config on the car for me, which clearly shows EAP on it, but it wasn't active on the car (only Basic AP). By the time I am able to drive it across the country and check with my local service center, it shows Basic AP now on the same config sheet.

Essentially, they sold it from the auction house to the dealer with EAP in the spec sheet, but already removed it from the car. They refuse to turn it back on for me, and given that I paid 45k for a fully loaded P3D with 230 miles on it, I refuse to pay $7k for FSD, so we are at an impasse. I still consider FSD a gimmick and not worth the cost, and the only real function I want is lane change on AP. I will never use advanced summon, etc.

 

[bkp_duke]

dismantler? no way the car is damn near perfect. the MCU is still working fine I got an new battery 1 year ago under warranty. it got repainted/repaired after a hail storm here in Colorado. so I will list it on some web sight first just checking here first.

I agree with you, I'm just saying the dismantlers set the floor on pricing. I am selling a 2013 P85 with a salvage title, and that knowledge has helped me stave off the low-ballers.

 

[dabbler]

I have to agree with Ostrichsak on trade offers given by tesla, I just recently tried to trade a 2012 S85 and they only offered 18K but they would sell if for 27 to 29K

I sold my 2013 85S with 185k miles through this website in the "Tesla for Sale" section and sold it in 10 days for $27,500, cash buyer. Car was never in an accident. Tesla offered me $17 for a trade.