There will be NO HW4 upgrade for HW3 owners

[KArnold]

Does it change things if the promises of Full Self Mowing coming soon were just in speeches and Tweets by the mower company's eccentric CEO, and not in any official advertising?

I think that is the official Tesla PR department. No other official channels stated orherwise.

 

[tdiggity]

So how many would be satisfied if FSD was transferable ?
What if there were caveat...for example one transfer per customer rather than FSD following you for life ?
Or..if it was transferable to a new car..but you had to pay the balance to reflect the latest pricing ?
Or do people really just want their money back ?

I think all of those are options. Something is better than nothing. But short of legal order, Tesla will play ball if it’s to their advantage as we’ve seen with the $5000 discount for trading in an old model s with unlimited supercharging AND transfers. I don’t see Tesla doing us any favors unless they can monetize it.

 

[JulienW]

I think Tesla wants (and wishes it went with from the beginning) the subscription model to be the standard and that eliminates the pass on or resale problem from here on out. I bet while debating it was stipulated to still sale it for those that want to own but just rase the price to astronomical levels.

Anyone that pays $15K now for FSD is either, A: keeping the car for a decade or more or, B: wealthy enough to "waste" it on a new car with ALL the options.

Anyone who is not in A or B didn't do simple math before buying: 75=15000/200 and that is 6¼ years. And this doesn't account for any finance charges or interest on the money you could earn. So it would be closer to 7 years of subscription service.

Of course that leaves everyone who bought FSD in the past in a lurch. I suspect the main problem with Tesla doing anything is the sheer complexity of the problem. You have so many FSD price points that have been done at different times and add in the amortization of FSD features that have been added since each person bought FSD and you have a nightmare that any solution must be elaborate, detailed and is NEVER going to make most people happy.

 

[Dewg]

Anyone that pays $15K now for FSD is either, A: keeping the car for a decade or more or, B: wealthy enough to "waste" it on a new car with ALL the options.

I reject your premise. Those aren't the only options.

 

[EVNow]

Anyone who is not in A or B didn't do simple math before buying: 75=15000/200 and that is 6¼ years. And this doesn't account for any finance charges or interest on the money you could earn. So it would be closer to 7 years of subscription service.

At the current subscription rate. No reason for Tesla to not increase the subscription if FSDb gets better over time ...

One thing for sure. AT $200 a month, Tesla won't be taking responsibility for accidents.

 

[JulienW]

At the current subscription rate. No reason for Tesla to not increase the subscription if FSDb gets better over time ...

One thing for sure. AT $200 a month, Tesla won't be taking responsibility for accidents.

Yea I think Tesla realizes that it should always be a L2 system and that has probably taken the pressure off a lot of the engineers. No more Full Self Driving L5 "pie in the sky" before the end of the year. Just keep improving and making a great L2 that eventually might qualify for L3 legally but stay at L2 and avoid insurance/liability.

Robotaxi will be a completely separate animal that won't be sold to the public. Probably will have HW5 by then and added/improved sensor suite.

 

[Supcom]

At the current subscription rate. No reason for Tesla to not increase the subscription if FSDb gets better over time ...

One thing for sure. AT $200 a month, Tesla won't be taking responsibility for accidents.

The subscription price has held steady since introduction despite FSD purchase price having gone up 50%. This is likely because the FSDb is not yet in the production stack and access to it is at Tesla's whim. Since subscribers are not entitled to FSDb access, they don't charge for it in the subscription.

Once FSDb merges to the production stack, expect the price to go up to at least $300/mo. It may go even higher if Tesla raises the purchase price.

 

[emmz0r]

The subscription price has held steady since introduction despite FSD purchase price having gone up 50%. This is likely because the FSDb is not yet in the production stack and access to it is at Tesla's whim. Since subscribers are not entitled to FSDb access, they don't charge for it in the subscription.

Once FSDb merges to the production stack, expect the price to go up to at least $300/mo. It may go even higher if Tesla raises the purchase price.

Then it's almost cheaper to hire a personal driver, or take the taxi when you need to get home drunk

 

[stopcrazypp]

The subscription price has held steady since introduction despite FSD purchase price having gone up 50%. This is likely because the FSDb is not yet in the production stack and access to it is at Tesla's whim. Since subscribers are not entitled to FSDb access, they don't charge for it in the subscription.

Actually, I should note that subscription does currently give FSDb access, it had been that way since at least when they ended the safety score (maybe even earlier).

Once FSDb merges to the production stack, expect the price to go up to at least $300/mo. It may go even higher if Tesla raises the purchase price.

 

[JulienW]

Actually, I should note that subscription does currently give FSDb access, it had been that way since at least when they ended the safety score (maybe even earlier).

Only if you already had it before the recall.

 

[Supcom]

Actually, I should note that subscription does currently give FSDb access, it had been that way since at least when they ended the safety score (maybe even earlier).

You are confusing Tesla permitting you to access FSDb with being entitled to FSDb. Since FSDb is not released, Tesla is permitting FSD subscribers and owners to access the early beta. Although unlikely, they could choose to withdraw that at any time (ignoring the recall legalities). This is also what allows them to suspend access for people who have too many forced disconnects.

Once FSDb is released into the production stack, any FSD licensee will be entitled to use it by virtue of their license. At this point, expect FSD subscription price to go way up, reflecting the increases that the purchased license has had since the subscription was introduced.

 

[KArnold]

Once FSDb is released into the production stack, any FSD licensee will be entitled to use it by virtue of their license.

You mean, officially stop calling it Beta? Never going to happen, IMHO.

 

[Supcom]

You mean, officially stop calling it Beta? Never going to happen, IMHO.

No. I mean merge it into the production branch.

 

[stopcrazypp]

You are confusing Tesla permitting you to access FSDb with being entitled to FSDb. Since FSDb is not released, Tesla is permitting FSD subscribers and owners to access the early beta. Although unlikely, they could choose to withdraw that at any time (ignoring the recall legalities). This is also what allows them to suspend access for people who have too many forced disconnects.

Once FSDb is released into the production stack, any FSD licensee will be entitled to use it by virtue of their license. At this point, expect FSD subscription price to go way up, reflecting the increases that the purchased license has had since the subscription was introduced.

Tesla have never indicated that FSD subscription would have a lower level of features than FSD purchase, so I'm not sure where you get the "entitled" vs "access". Without the "Autosteer on City Streets" feature, the only feature FSD subscription has over EAP is Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control.

Edit: I found they already added the clarifying point that subscriptions can access FSD Beta back in March 30, 2022. This was before the safety score criteria was lowered to 95 (and well before they removed the safety score requirement).
Full Self-Driving Capability Subscriptions

 

[Supcom]

Tesla have never indicated that FSD subscription would have a lower level of features than FSD purchase, so I'm not sure where you get the "entitled" vs "access". Without the "Autosteer on City Streets" feature, the only feature FSD subscription has over EAP is Traffic Light and Stop Sign Control.

Edit: I found they already added the clarifying point that subscriptions can access FSD Beta back in March 30, 2022. This was before the safety score criteria was lowered to 95 (and well before they removed the safety score requirement).
Full Self-Driving Capability Subscriptions

There is no difference between subscription and purchase. You are still confusing what you are entitled to use versus development software that Tesla has chosen to give access to.

 

[stopcrazypp]

There is no difference between subscription and purchase. You are still confusing what you are entitled to use versus development software that Tesla has chosen to give access to.

I don't get your point then, you are the one making the distinction between subscription not being "entitled" to FSDb. The fact is Tesla have indicated the only difference with subscription is there is a time limit. The features that it has is the same as if you purchased FSD outright, so that includes FSDb and the eventual released feature of "Autosteer on City Streets".

 

[JulienW]

I don't get your point then, you are the one making the distinction between subscription not being "entitled" to FSDb. The fact is Tesla have indicated the only difference with subscription is there is a time limit. The features that it has is the same as if you purchased FSD outright, so that includes FSDb and the eventual released feature of "Autosteer on City Streets".

No one pays for or is entitled to FSD Beta. FSD Capability Package is what you buy or subscribe and does NOT include FSD Beta. FSD Beta is granted by Tesla for people to use any way they choose to allow it. Here is what you are entitled to when you buy or subscribe to FSD Capability Package.

 

[Supcom]

I don't get your point then, you are the one making the distinction between subscription not being "entitled" to FSDb. The fact is Tesla have indicated the only difference with subscription is there is a time limit. The features that it has is the same as if you purchased FSD outright, so that includes FSDb and the eventual released feature of "Autosteer on City Streets".

I agree that you do not get my point.

 

[stopcrazypp]

No one pays for or is entitled to FSD Beta. FSD Capability Package is what you buy or subscribe and doses NOT include FSD Beta. FSD Beta is granted by Tesla for people to use any way they choose to allow it. Here is what you are entitled to when you buy or subscribe to FSD Capability Package.

I don't see that being relevant then, given that point applies to both subscription and purchases equally.

 

[JulienW]

I don't see that being relevant then, given that point applies to both subscription and purchases equally.

Who said they were not treated equally? No one. The only statement even close was Supcom saying that subscription price might increase if Beta is put in the general release for anyone with FSD Capability Package. Actually Tesla could rase or lower the subscription price at any time for any reason (like the wind blowing). So that is the ONLY point in them being NOT equal.