Thinking about joining legal action on recent massive price cut

[Knightshade]

Good point. I made my purchase 16 years after Tesla was founded, 7 years after the Model S production began. Hardly early adoption.

Exactly early adoption given this was their first mass-market mass rollout car.

Ford was founded in 1903, the Model T- THEIR first mass market mass rollout car- didn't come out till 1909, and starting 1910 through 1916 the price of the Model T dropped every single year- by more (% wise) than Tesla is dropping prices on the 3.

 

[Kilotango74]

If your sitting around comparing prices that you paid vs what others are paying now you are obviously not spending enough time enjoying your car. You should probably sell it. You must not own much I. The way of technology based products of you have time mentality. What do you do when the sell phone you bought on day one drops to half price in a year? So tired of reading this BS.

Exactly early adoption given this was their first mass-market mass rollout car.

Ford was founded in 1903, the Model T- THEIR first mass market mass rollout car- didn't come out till 1909, and starting 1910 through 1916 the price of the Model T dropped every single year- by more (% wise) than Tesla is dropping prices on the 3.

So the M3 is a completely new model with completely new tech. Of course it’s early adoption. Unless you are just now buying a M3

 

[ElectricLee]

Please move away from the keyboard and get in the “Smart Car” M3 and ENJOY the road! Travel has been more enjoyable with ANY Tesla at ANY price!

 

[Ultron]

I would never consider suing and I love my car that I took delivery on June 24 with a $3750 fed tax credit but it would be nice of Tesla if they did offer me something like maybe a $1,000 store credit or free enhanced summons or at the very least give me unlimited time to use my 5000 free miles. It would go a long way to keep their loyal customers happy. And it's not something that we should even have to ask for.

 

[MoHazee4]

Don’t buy anything new ever again. Just wait. You will get so much more for your money!

I bet you can get a real steal on a ‘93 Ford Probe GT!

I wouldn't be so irritated about this issue, if my car was more than 1 year old.

My car isn't even 8 months old....

Lowering the selling price soo much, further depreciates the value of my vehicle.

 

[MoHazee4]

Some perspective from the past-


Model T in 1909 when it launched- $825 initially... this went up to $900 in 1910.


In 1911 volume had scaled, and Ford cut the price to $680.

In 1912 they cut it further to $590.

1913? $525

1914? $440

1915? $390

1916? $345

So within ~2 years of production start the new car price was ~25% cheaper than peak price...within 5 years more than 50% cheaper than peak... and kept going down several years after.

Weirdly nobody filed a class action against Henry Ford for any of this.

Key statement in your post .. Within 2 years ... my car isn't even 8 months old. And a new one is now $10k less....

So, not only is a new one worth less -- my own car, is now worth even less

 

[PLAIDMS_DDS]

I'm going to sue Apple for discounting iPhone and iPad prices for being an early adopter. Wish me luck! /S

 

[MXWing]

Key statement in your post .. Within 2 years ... my car isn't even 8 months old. And a new one is now $10k less....

So, not only is a new one worth less -- my own car, is now worth even less

What was your federal incentive at the moment you bought versus $1,875 which is now.

 

[MoHazee4]

Federal incentive was $7,500. This was Uncle Sam giving me an incentive to buy a "green" vehicle, not to subsidize Tesla's production.

If you're going to say - the value I am loosing is re-couped from the tax credit - I must stop you there. The tax credit is a whole separate thing from the car purchase. It is not a price break on the car.

The price of the car didn't change, just because of the tax credit.

The tax credit was between me & Uncle Sam -- not me & Tesla.

 

[MXWing]

As a shareholder, you should be concerned about shrinking margins. While lower costs are great for buyers, it takes away from shareholder profits so some of us have mixed feelings on the topic.

What makes you believe margins have dropped? Maybe costs have dropped faster than the price cuts?

I don’t think Tesla’s fate is decided Q2, Q3 or even Q4.

It’s going to be success of GF3, success of Model Y and how fast/cheap Tesla can get raw KW production.

Personal opinion, I am seeing FSD as a long path of incremental improvements and will not save Tesla from the much higher priority of making and moving cars.

Model Y was the car Tesla should have been what the Model 3 is today.

Everything up to Model Y is a stalling game.

Model Y either disrupts the CUV market (most popular worldwide) or I will be very concerned.

It has to be so good it can live without subsidies, have higher margins (with all mixed) over the 3 and be cheaper to produce.

Sitting in one, I would even swap our 3’s in a second if no penalty.

No question the Y is awesome, just how much can produce, sell and how much cost.

Edit: my belief is cost Tesla around $3000 between the cost of a 50KW car and a 75KW performance car. That’s like 500% marginal revenue vs mc if cog holds true.

 

[MXWing]

Federal incentive was $7,500. This was Uncle Sam giving me an incentive to buy a "green" vehicle, not to subsidize Tesla's production.

If you're going to say - the value I am loosing is re-couped from the tax credit - I must stop you there. The tax credit is a whole separate thing from the car purchase. It is not a price break on the car.

The price of the car didn't change, just because of the tax credit.

The tax credit was between me & Uncle Sam -- not me & Tesla.

I do not mean this to be an insult but thinking tax credits are independent of Tesla’s pricing would be ignorance of very basic high school economics. You are not the only one that thinks the same which brings unnecessary frustration to yourself and those who understood this before Tesla even existed as a company.

The entire point of subsidies is that is a “gift of money” to help all electric vehicles be more competitive.

It seems I can run a master class here on TMC on just the topic of subsidies and how they shift demand and supply curves.

Not accepting the two are not connected, is like not accepting the earth is round (oblate spheroid technically).

It’s practically a law of economics that the tax credit will affect the price Tesla charges in absence of other other factors.

Another point that connects distribution of subsidies is price elasticity of demand.

Unfortunately, the PED appears to be more elastic than inelastic as Tesla is needing to absorb the majority of the subsidy.

Even if you don’t like it, you did recoup a percentage of your “losses” through uncle sams subsidy.

It’s too in-depth and would entail other technical changes but Uncle Sam could have written Tesla a check for 7,500 in 2018 per car sold but then it would bite them today as the price would appear to keep going to. Consumers look at the past pointlessly versus today and tomorrow.

 

[Electroman]

I do not mean this to be an insult but thinking tax credits are independent of Tesla’s pricing would be ignorance of very basic high school economics. You are not the only one that thinks the same which brings unnecessary frustration to yourself and those who understood this before Tesla even existed as a company.

The entire point of subsidies is that is a “gift of money” to help all electric vehicles be more competitive.

It seems I can run a master class here on TMC on just the topic of subsidies and how they shift demand and supply curves.

Not accepting the two are not connected, is like not accepting the earth is round (oblate spheroid technically).

It’s practically a law of economics that the tax credit will affect the price Tesla charges in absence of other other factors.

Another point that connects distribution of subsidies is price elasticity of demand.

Unfortunately, the PED appears to be more elastic than inelastic as Tesla is needing to absorb the majority of the subsidy.

Even if you don’t like it, you did recoup a percentage of your “losses” through uncle sams subsidy.

It’s too in-depth and would entail other technical changes but Uncle Sam could have written Tesla a check for 7,500 in 2018 per car sold but then it would bite them today as the price would appear to keep going to. Consumers look at the past pointlessly versus today and tomorrow.

Love it. Well said.

When you bought the car last year, it instantly depreciated by $7.5K when you drove it out of the showroom. I mean why would I buy your car unless you sell it to me for atleast 7.5K+ less, when I can buy a new car for $7.5k less due to Fed tax credit?

So not taking that into account is very silly, to be blunt. If that were not to be the case, then everyone would buy one and flip it right out of the showroom for say $2k less and pocket $7.5k from Uncle Sam and profit $4.5 k out of the deal. Man then I would buy a hundred cars and make money.

 

[Knightshade]

Key statement in your post .. Within 2 years ... my car isn't even 8 months old. And a new one is now $10k less....

It's really not though.

Last years got almost 6k more tax rebate, and a 5k FUSC refund for most.

But let's do math-

$900 in 1910

$680 in 1911.

One year to the next. Just as 8 months ago was one year to the next.

That's a drop of almost 25% (900 * .75= $675)

The drop on the Model 3 is much less of a drop than that. (and even more less if you count the credits/refunds)

 

[S4WRXTTCS]

Federal incentive was $7,500. This was Uncle Sam giving me an incentive to buy a "green" vehicle, not to subsidize Tesla's production.

If you're going to say - the value I am loosing is re-couped from the tax credit - I must stop you there. The tax credit is a whole separate thing from the car purchase. It is not a price break on the car.

The price of the car didn't change, just because of the tax credit.

The tax credit was between me & Uncle Sam -- not me & Tesla.

The $7500 tax credit has always been a gift to the manufacture to help their profit margins to incentive them to attempt to make EV's.

There are a couple ways we know this

A - If it was between the tax payer and the government then the limitation would be the total number of EV's where the tax credit was claimed. But, it's not that way. Instead it's the total number of tax credits claimed per manufacture. Tesla has hit that limitation so they no longer benefit from their vehicles qualifying for it.

B - If it was between the tax payer, and the government then it wouldn't be limited to just new vehicles. They would incentive the tax buyers buying an EV.

In the long run the only way Tesla can compete with companies who's vehicles still qualify for the tax credit is to lower the price. In essence there really was no reason to rush to purchase a Tesla before the tax credits expired.

I was someone who did this, and I don't believe I mathematically gained from it. Instead Tesla just countered the loss of the tax credit by lowering the price. OOPS!!

I didn't think Tesla had enough of a profit margin to do such massive price decreases. We'll know if they did then the quarter report on profits and loses is released. I did expect drops to compensate, but not to degree that they did especially when there still is little competition. It's not like people are jumping ship in droves for a Jaguar I-Pace or an E-Tron.

I don't feel too bad as most analyst seem to have gotten it wrong too. They assumed Tesla would have a really hard time competing with European competitors due to the federal tax credit issue, but apparently Tesla is so far ahead in terms of battery cost that they could pull off even competing at cost without a $7500 handout.

 

[MXWing]

n the long run the only way Tesla can compete with companies who's vehicles still qualify for the tax credit is to lower the price. In essence there really was no reason to rush to purchase a Tesla before the tax credits expired.

Only in hindsight. If you didn’t rush, you wouldn’t have been able to get FUSC on P Model 3s, 3MR, 3LR, Obsidian Black Paint, Silver and anything else I missed. Are any of those worth more than the drop beyond the credits - up to the buyer. In the end, those are still missed opportunities. You also got to drive the car for X time. People are valuing that at ZERO. That’s the second most frustrating thing to me next to people lack of understanding that the tax credit and Tesla’s MSRP is attached to the hip.

I did expect drops to compensate, but not to degree that they did especially when there still is little competition. It's not like people are jumping ship in droves for a Jaguar I-Pace or an E-Tron.

If you own ANY Tesla you are in a much higher wealth bracket than the majority of the worlds population. 35K is still more car than many can afford.

Elon said a few times that everyone wants a Model 3, they just can’t afford it. It’s true. If Tesla wants it in more hands they have to keep marching the price down. It’s not good for margins obviously but we have to hope they can reduce the cogs by the same amount or more.

I’ve seen only a single iPace actually owned by a consumer in SoCal, one of the EV capitols of the world. Full federal subsidy did nothing for the iPace it seems.

Volt might be alive if GMs program wasn’t also headed to 0 from 7500.

 

[ibGeek]

With the recent major price reduction, I feel like I'm hit with the penalty for being a few months earlier adopter.

Not sure if I'd line up at the stores overnight or put reservation money.

I bet many of you, the loan balance is higher than how much you can buy the cars right now. Even with the tax credit refunds.

I can't even imagine how recent S or X owners feel right now.

You can easily disregard by saying 'that's how business works' but US is a country with lawsuits with a few MPG difference.

If there's no compensation gesture from Tesla, I'm willing to join a party with legal action. Do any of you know which firms are cooking up those ideas?

So when sears puts your favorite pair of Tuffskins on sale the week after you buy them do you want to start a lawsuit against them as well? If it was within a couple days.. (as mine was when i bought my model 3), then sure call and ask them. In my case, Tesla cut me a check for the difference without any hesitation. But beyond that, you just need to let it go. Prices on everything change all the time for all sorts of reasons. Parts costs, manufacturing delays or improvements, distribution. Look I get it that it stings a bit, but throwing even more money at a lawyer because a company changes the price on a product that they sell is just stupid. You are not entitled to any special treatment. They can legally tell you that they don't want to sell you a car at all. They can legally sell you a car at one price, and the next guy another. What do you think car dealerships have been doing for years. The only difference is that Tesla is transparent about their changes, where all other auto dealers are not.

 

[hcdavis3]

Key statement in your post .. Within 2 years ... my car isn't even 8 months old. And a new one is now $10k less....

So, not only is a new one worth less -- my own car, is now worth even less

Does anyone really buy a car with intent to keep it for five or so years really look at the resale value that far down the road? The resale value is gonna suck because that’s what cars do, depreciate. If you’re gonna buy a car every year I can see your concern. I’m not rich enough to do that.

 

[Matt L]

Federal incentive was $7,500. This was Uncle Sam giving me an incentive to buy a "green" vehicle, not to subsidize Tesla's production.

If you're going to say - the value I am loosing is re-couped from the tax credit - I must stop you there. The tax credit is a whole separate thing from the car purchase. It is not a price break on the car.

The price of the car didn't change, just because of the tax credit.

The tax credit was between me & Uncle Sam -- not me & Tesla.

Just lol

 

[sperkin]

Key statement in your post .. Within 2 years ... my car isn't even 8 months old. And a new one is now $10k less....

So, not only is a new one worth less -- my own car, is now worth even less

Don’t wreck it. If it’s totaled insurance will only pay current market value so you’ll end up owing $10k to the bank. Get GAP insurance to be safe.

 

[CarlK]

Don’t wreck it. If it’s totaled insurance will only pay current market value so you’ll end up owing $10k to the bank. Get GAP insurance to be safe.

What's wrong with getting the replacement value? Are you thinking making a profit from the accident?