Tidal and in car audio with 2021.40.x

[Tony Hoyle]

If you prefer the spotify sound and it's just streaming then stick with that.. but then you have no option for download at all.. so the flipside is it's never going to get any better.
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Also if you haven't already flatten the EQ before the test (just in case you dialed it in so spotify sounded good and that is working against you).

 

[Zacster]

I just listened to two different masterings on Qobuz and one is definitely inferior to the other. There is a remastered version from 2020 which sounds good with deep distinct bass, and an original of the same version that lacks bass and is all around indistinct. The one playing with the speaker is the old version that sounds bad, the good one is second from top. And then I see there are a few in 24/96 too. A lot of versions and masterings so you really can't compare based on streaming source.

 

[bo3bdar]

In case it wasn't obvious, I'm an engineer, and I can't help myself from trying to understand how it works. So it's good to know there are different masters, but I still want to know if I can use always use streaming, or whether I can expect to have it be poor part of the time. Why would they use a poor quality master and Spotify wouldn't? On both services, I chose the song off what looks like the original album, no 'remastered' in name for example, or a 'best-of' album. I'm not really interested in $10/month for getting poor results part of the time. Stuff that only works part time makes me bonkers. The reason to use this specific song is it's an existence proof of a broken track, which dramatically lowers the value of Tidal for me.

It's a tricky combo though to decide what matters most. Part of the entire point is the convenience, so Spotify is the clear winner there. But then that'll be $20/month with both services. It's not going to break the bank, so maybe that's the right choice. However, if I manage all the files myself, I can get lossless for free, but then have no search ability. No clear winner so far, was rather hoping Tidal would be a slam dunk.


However, Tidal is looking less like a winner to me. I spent some time digging around in the UI, and I think there is a limit on the number of songs that you can download. It's on the order of about 500 songs. Might be space related instead. If average lossless/download songs are 10Mb/min and 2 minutes long, that's on the order of 10G of storage.

I let the car sit on WiFi with Sentry Mode on so it wouldn't sleep, and let it download all the queued items. It stalled out, and lists of songs were marked in light grey which seems to mean unplayable. If I deleted some downloaded songs, it picked up some new ones. I'm pretty sure there is some hard-coded limit that is on the low side for me.

I updated to latest Tesla firmware, 2021.44.6 to hopefully get some clarity into bugs and how it works. I also rebooted to see if that helped. No difference. One strange thing is I no longer see the Telsa T at reboots.

The reason some HiFi songs start playing and then glitch out and show Loading Error, seems to be related to this hard storage cap. It only has space for part of a new song, so when I tap a song to play, it downloads all it can, and stops.

500 songs is OK, but I don't think that is going to cut it for using it minus streaming, and if I can't trust streaming to be good, then there is no real value added to me. I don't really understand such a low cap. I'm expecting it to be 10x bigger, 5000 songs and then we can talk.


@Zacster: I think this is the encoder working badly on this song. I need to try a better A:B:A test when I'm fresh, but I did a test case where I listened to it streaming and the kick drum at the start is all thumpy and bad. Then I enabled WiFi and let it download the song so it was HiFi, and that version sounded a lot better, including clearing up the highs/vocals.

 

[Durzel]

I’m using TIDAL pretty much exclusively now, albeit tethering off my phone in the car so that it is fooled into playing “HiFi” quality stuff all of the time.

It sounds night and day better than Spotify to me. I can’t discern any difference between Spotify on WiFi and LTE (my own Spotify account, not built in). I don’t download anything to the car.

I’d say my setup is working 95% of the time, only having problems when my phone doesn’t have a good enough 4G signal for extended periods. It does add a bit of faff to getting into the car to drive it though, as the car doesn’t seem to find the hotspot without me actually going onto that section in the settings on my iPhone.

I’ve got unlimited data too which obviously not everyone has.

I’d say, from my experience, the SQ is basically like this:

USB SSD FLAC/TIDAL (WiFi) > TIDAL (LTE) > Spotify (WiFi/LTE)

 

[rotor2k]

I’m using TIDAL pretty much exclusively now, albeit tethering off my phone in the car so that it is fooled into playing “HiFi” quality stuff all of the time.

It sounds night and day better than Spotify to me. I can’t discern any difference between Spotify on WiFi and LTE (my own Spotify account, not built in). I don’t download anything to the car.

I’d say my setup is working 95% of the time, only having problems when my phone doesn’t have a good enough 4G signal for extended periods. It does add a bit of faff to getting into the car to drive it though, as the car doesn’t seem to find the hotspot without me actually going onto that section in the settings on my iPhone.

I’ve got unlimited data too which obviously not everyone has.

I’d say, from my experience, the SQ is basically like this:

USB SSD FLAC/TIDAL (WiFi) > TIDAL (LTE) > Spotify (WiFi/LTE)

Is the trick with tethering to join the tethering Wifi before setting off? I had already set it to "stay connected while in Drive", but it doesn't auto-connect when I leave home (where it is connected to the home Wifi), and once the car is in Drive, Wifi gets disabled.

 

[Zacster]

Even just choosing the original song off what looks like the original album doesn't always get the same thing. Here is the list from a search on Tidal. I'd do Spotify too but I don't have an account. I see the first one appears to be the original but that was encoded with MQA. Does that mean it isn't an original version? MQA is a fairly recent thing. It's just really hard to say. Likely it isn't some engineer picking and choosing what to show, it is just an algorithm.

As for technical issues, well my experience is that all the non-essential apps on the Tesla have technical issues. If it can hold 500 songs that is plenty for me to use in a day's driving. Of course, your mood changes through the day too. This is why I always argued for full streaming of everything, pick what you want when you want it. I wouldn't blame Tidal for that, I'd blame Tesla. What I don't like is not having all the info as I do using Audirvana on a Mac as I show below. There is a lot more to see off the screen, I made the title wider so you could see the info. In the car you just don't have that. Bit rate and depth are important with Qobuz since so much will appear at 24/96 or 24/192, a lot more than the car could handle if it could handle Qobuz at all.

As for the tethering to the hotspot, well that's the problem I have too. Every time I stop I have to reset the hot spot by going to the phone and turning it off and on, and then selecting it in the car. It is a real PITA. If I'm making a lot of stop, which I usually am I will always forget.

 

[Durzel]

Is the trick with tethering to join the tethering Wifi before setting off? I had already set it to "stay connected while in Drive", but it doesn't auto-connect when I leave home (where it is connected to the home Wifi), and once the car is in Drive, Wifi gets disabled.

You have to specifically connect to your phone (changing wifi network from your home to the phone) before you put it in Drive. Then when you actually put it in Drive it’ll stay connected to your phone.

Once WiFi is disabled - because you were connected to a network without that checkbox checked, or weren’t connected at all, you’ll have to stop and put it back in Park to start from scratch.

 

[gangzoom]

When I listen to the song on Tidal streaming it sounds terrible. Boomy bass, muted highs. When I compare with Spotify Premium I think there is no question that Spotify sounds better and more balanced.

We must have totally different ears, because when I would say the exact opposite, expect for the Spotify tracks don't even have a boomy bass, just totally flat compared to Tidal streaming.

I have 'free for life' Spotify premium on the car, but after now been use to Tidal I'm going to keep paying the subscription as it simply sounds much better to my ears. The Tidal phone app is much better than the car app though, hopefully Tesla will improve the car app.

 

[Durzel]

Tidal app in the car seems slower or somehow more “cached” than my phone. I’ve got a “My Daily Discovery” playlist in the phone app that hasn’t appeared in the car. My only gripe really.

 

[redbar675]

'Scuse my ignorance, but will you really notice the difference with all the ambient noise in the car whilst driving?

Good question. Worth a test to find out. My guess: Between Spotify's 320 kpbs and FLAC, mostly no but sometimes maybe, depending on the track. Between FLAC and MQA? No way. The point for me is that the difference in my home system is huge, so I use Tidal, not Spotify everywhere outside of the car, and now my library is now accessible in my car, which is awesome.

 

[cgell]

Good question. Worth a test to find out. My guess: Between Spotify's 320 kpbs and FLAC, mostly no but sometimes maybe, depending on the track. Between FLAC and MQA? No way. The point for me is that the difference in my home system is huge, so I use Tidal, not Spotify everywhere outside of the car, and now my library is now accessible in my car, which is awesome.

I switched from Spotify to Tidal. I was not happy with the sound quality of Spotify in the car. Tidal is very noticeably better. I’m really pleased with it.

 

[psuKinger]

I finally got a version update that supports Tidal 2021.44.6... and I'm having a real hard time with the downloads, anybody have this problem? I have strong wifi coverage in my garage. I queued up a bunch of albums to download while I was away from home.... and when I return home, it just doesn't start to download them automatically. I've done a manually reset a couple times while at home, and it seems like after a reset it'll download 1-2 more songs, and then stop downloading again... and there doesn't seem to be an option to "delete from queue" and then readd again? And if I try to tell it to download something new while I'm at home it tells me it's 'been added to the queue' but then doesn't work on downloading whatever's at the top of the queue...

Any suggestions? Is this user error on my part?

 

[Horatio Alger]

Yep, I had this. I suspect you've run out of storage, or at least that's what I think my problem was. Try removing one or two albums from the Downloads area and then check the albums that weren't downloading. I found they started to download. No idea how much storage there is, but I've got about 30 albums downloaded.

Some error messaging would be helpful, Tesla.

 

[Horatio Alger]

Oh, and I found logging off from Tidal deletes the downloads, so that may be worth trying too. Not sure if logging back in re-downloads stuff.

 

[Sunvalleylaw]

again, it will be nice when (as I think it will be when, not if) access to an external drive can help with Tidal downloads, and there is a better interface for other audio files. Others have said it would be cool to have some sort of version of something like Roon. That would be a cool thing it that would work, as Tidal, Qobuz, and your own files can be sources there. And the interface, if ported to that screen, would be a nice thing. Even if it had a driving mode that limited the distraction somewhat. Not saying it WILL be Roon, but I bet something like that experience comes around at some point.

 

[psuKinger]

again, it will be nice when (as I think it will be when, not if) access to an external drive can help with Tidal downloads, and there is a better interface for other audio files. Others have said it would be cool to have some sort of version of something like Roon. That would be a cool thing it that would work, as Tidal, Qobuz, and your own files can be sources there. And the interface, if ported to that screen, would be a nice thing. Even if it had a driving mode that limited the distraction somewhat. Not saying it WILL be Roon, but I bet something like that experience comes around at some point.

Roon would be ideal.... Particularly if my lifetime sub would work in my car and on my PC at the same time (without needing two subs).

 

[bo3bdar]

Yep, I had this. I suspect you've run out of storage, or at least that's what I think my problem was. Try removing one or two albums from the Downloads area and then check the albums that weren't downloading. I found they started to download. No idea how much storage there is, but I've got about 30 albums downloaded.

Some error messaging would be helpful, Tesla.

I think this is right. Same as my experience. Added too many items to be downloaded as HiFi, and it gets wedged when it runs out of space. My very rough estimate is that is on the order of 10GB of storage, maybe 500 songs, and seems to be hard coded. If it's full, you can't even play anything new off WiFi, because there is no space, it will fail with "loading error," or glitch out after about 15 seconds of playing.

Thanks for the tip on logging out, mine is sufficiently wedged that I can't even play streaming. I'll try that to clear the storage.

 

[Nick77]

Is there any way to delete selected albums/playlists and get another one downloaded instead?

Or is it all or nothing?

 

[Zacster]

There is a trash/delete button on any album or playlist you've downloaded where the download button was. It would be nice if you could do it in bulk but AFAIK you can't, just one album at a time. It doesn't take any time though to delete.

 

[Nick77]

There is a trash/delete button on any album or playlist you've downloaded where the download button was. It would be nice if you could do it in bulk but AFAIK you can't, just one album at a time. It doesn't take any time though to delete.

Cheers good to know.