Touch screen control for wipers is dangerous

[Kognos]

This is a UI/UX problem. Not to derail, but it's the same problem I have with wanting to increase fan speed on the air conditioning. While I'm driving, I have to manually reach over and tap the fan, then tap the screen specifically at the spot on the screen for the increase/decrease button. (we all know this) But this is where it is similar to the wiper blades - most of the time I miss the buttons.

I'm not old, I don't have trembling hands, I am not crazy, it's called just simple small buttons and bumpy roads. So I have to deliberately focus on the screen. I have to deliberately anchor my hands. I deliberately press the buttons. This is not quick or easy really, even when I know precisely where the button is on the screen.

We chastise our kids for using cell phones while driving for exactly this reason. Anything that forces your attention away from driving adds risk.

I can live with the A/C issue since that isn't something that ever requires attention. It's vanity by comparison.

If holding the left stalk button keeps the blades going then great, but that might be a slow rate. I do believe there needs to be a way to turn on and increase rate of blades without taking eyes off the road. I've been in sudden downpours before and it's highly unnerving. Perhaps a double press of the left button? If it's off/auto it goes to 1 ... if it's 1, goes to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to off.

 

[blackeducator]

Voice command: Press right steering wheel button and say: "Increase wiper speed."

That would be the best alternative to reaching over with eyes off the rain-soaked road. This is doable because it's a software update....

 

[sreams]

Yes. Not an acceptable alternative. Especially when you'd have your one hand perma-occupied while driving in less than ideal weather conditions.

No. You may have missed the reply where this was answered. Wiper fluid is sprayed only if you press past the first detent.

 

[alseTrick]

No. You may have missed the reply where this was answered. Wiper fluid is sprayed only if you press past the first detent.

Doesn't solve the issue of only having one hand in adverse driving conditions.

 

[Kognos]

Just revisiting this since i had some more experience.

Overall with 2019.20.4.4 I am finding the "auto" wiper blade setting to be fine - not perfect, but not bad either. However, I had a situation where on the highway at 60+ mph, I needed the blades to be as fast as possible, it was really getting nearly impossible to see, and the setting really didn't go as fast as it really needed to for the visibility. I had to manually set it.

Additionally, that was precisely the kind of situation where I didn't remotely want to take my eyes off the road. It's not safe...

 

[SwaggerWagon]

I think we can agree the wiper function could be improved. Fine, but to say you would have to perform the above action 40 times?

If it all of a sudden starts pouring down cats and dogs you would perform that function ONCE. You would tap the button which brings up the wiper function and then tap the 3rd option which turns on the wipers as gas as they can go. Leave it on u til the storm passes or you pass through the storm.

Done. Again, I agree the wiper function can be improved but we are making way more of this that it is.

That’s not how rain works.

 

[SwaggerWagon]

This is the dangerous part, not the wipers.

I have to disagree - not being able to see is more dangerous than most things while driving, and wipers allow you to see. They also allow the FSD cameras to see, so the idea that in the future driver seats will face backwards, people will nap or work on a laptop, etc., is all predicated on vision while driving. Of the auto-wipers can’t work correctly, neither can the self-driving. If manual wipers work poorly, so will manual driving...bison is kind of one of the foundations of driving.

Being on a phone call is no more dangerous than talking to a passenger, I can dial people, talk, and hang up all without looking at a single screen. If it’s busy or an accident or construction I normally hang up, just as I’d stop chatting with a passenger when j have to concentrate.

Take it from a pro, the wipers suck.

 

[SwaggerWagon]

I have to disagree - not being able to see is more dangerous than most things while driving, and wipers allow you to see. They also allow the FSD cameras to see, so the idea that in the future driver seats will face backwards, people will nap or work on a laptop, etc., is all predicated on vision while driving. Of the auto-wipers can’t work correctly, neither can the self-driving. If manual wipers work poorly, so will manual driving...bison is kind of one of the foundations of driving.

Being on a phone call is no more dangerous than talking to a passenger, I can dial people, talk, and hang up all without looking at a single screen. If it’s busy or an accident or construction I normally hang up, just as I’d stop chatting with a passenger when j have to concentrate.

Take it from a pro, the wipers suck.

*vison, not bison... though bison could cause a problem too

 

[srs5694]

Being on a phone call is no more dangerous than talking to a passenger, I can dial people, talk, and hang up all without looking at a single screen. If it’s busy or an accident or construction I normally hang up, just as I’d stop chatting with a passenger when j have to concentrate.

The last I heard, research on cell phone use while driving suggested otherwise. The problem is that, when you're on the phone with somebody while driving, your attention is divided, which reduces your safety. The same is true to some extent when you're talking to somebody in the car, but in that case, that other person also has eyes and ears, and may alert you to a danger in time, should you miss it because of the conversation. Thus, your attention deficit is uncompensated when you're using a cell phone, but it's at least partially compensated for by your passenger when you're talking in person.

That said, I'm not a researcher in this field, and I haven't read the original research, just read/heard the top-line summaries as presented by general news reporting. I'm sure that reporting omits a lot of important details. The original research may also be incomplete in important ways.

 

[SwaggerWagon]

This is a UI/UX problem. Not to derail, but it's the same problem I have with wanting to increase fan speed on the air conditioning. While I'm driving, I have to manually reach over and tap the fan, then tap the screen specifically at the spot on the screen for the increase/decrease button. (we all know this) But this is where it is similar to the wiper blades - most of the time I miss the buttons.

I'm not old, I don't have trembling hands, I am not crazy, it's called just simple small buttons and bumpy roads. So I have to deliberately focus on the screen. I have to deliberately anchor my hands. I deliberately press the buttons. This is not quick or easy really, even when I know precisely where the button is on the screen.

We chastise our kids for using cell phones while driving for exactly this reason. Anything that forces your attention away from driving adds risk.

I can live with the A/C issue since that isn't something that ever requires attention. It's vanity by comparison.

If holding the left stalk button keeps the blades going then great, but that might be a slow rate. I do believe there needs to be a way to turn on and increase rate of blades without taking eyes off the road. I've been in sudden downpours before and it's highly unnerving. Perhaps a double press of the left button? If it's off/auto it goes to 1 ... if it's 1, goes to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to off.

Yup, I agree with all of this. I know the Air Force did some studies on this and concluded individual, physical buttons are the best. That being said, most of us are not driving cars upside down while being shot at, going 900mph, so take it for what it’s worth.

I’ve always thought the buttons should change size like the Apple OSX dock, based on a finger being close to it. They could easily deduce through capacitance which buttons your finger is “more over”, and enlarge it so bumps don’t make you miss it. Have the same issues with touchscreens in every other car I’ve driven too, but Tesla is probably the only one with enough UI computing power to do this.

Voice commands would also nicely solve the issue, and I think it would be nice if they did both.

Also, since you brought up the HVAC, why is there no oscillate function for the fans? No one likes air blowing in the same place all the time, and the louvres are all motorized, so why not? Would be way more luxe imho as well. They could do all kinds of crazy patterns with the two air streams per person too

 

[nvx1977]

It's pretty clear from the numerous threads on this topic that a lot of people feel there's a serious safety issue with the wipers. And a lot of people feel there's not. I remain skeptical that the issue is as serious as people are proposing, mainly because I have yet to hear of a single person on these forums, or any news/blog article report that they actually got into an accident because they couldn't see out their windshield. Given how much desire is out there to smear Tesla, someone should have found an opportunity to report on multiple wiper-caused accidents by now.

From a usability/ergonomic perspective, I can definitely see people being frustrated with the stalk button in conjunction with reliance on the touchscreen to control the wipers. I'm not yet convinced there's a huge safety issue. With so many Model 3s now on the roads, if statistically the wipers were causing accidents, we'd be hearing about it.

In my past cars, I've been in squalls so bad that not even the best wipers could improve visibility. You know what I do along with all the other drivers do in those situations? We slow way down. I've lived along the US east coast all my life and am used to huge summer downpours. It's not a big deal. Way easier than driving in a snowstorm, IMO.

 

[SwaggerWagon]

The last I heard, research on cell phone use while driving suggested otherwise. The problem is that, when you're on the phone with somebody while driving, your attention is divided, which reduces your safety. The same is true to some extent when you're talking to somebody in the car, but in that case, that other person also has eyes and ears, and may alert you to a danger in time, should you miss it because of the conversation. Thus, your attention deficit is uncompensated when you're using a cell phone, but it's at least partially compensated for by your passenger when you're talking in person.

That said, I'm not a researcher in this field, and I haven't read the original research, just read/heard the top-line summaries as presented by general news reporting. I'm sure that reporting omits a lot of important details. The original research may also be incomplete in important ways.

Don’t get me wrong, I agree it’s more distracting to talk on phone or to passengers while driving than not. I just think not being able to see while driving is even more dangerous. I can also choose to stop talking and do so (and not to jinx it, but my perfect driving record while driving 2-3x the average person bears that out) to limit the danger, but I can’t stop the rain.

I can choose to stop driving if it rains too hard and can’t see and have done so, same with snowing, but cancer patients can’t get their treatments if I can’t drive so I have to be cognizant if that as well. And something tells me if it’s your spouse or parent or child that needs their treatments, you’d want me to not stop driving every time it sprinkles, and would probably want me to not stop driving ever... but putting my life at risk to help save other lives isn’t a great idea either, as after I die many multiple people wouldn’t get their treatments.

 

[Zooner]

I’m guessing you’re new to your car. Like any new car there’s an orientation period. I find the wipers easy to use. There are a couple of actions you can perform with the left hand stalk...your owners manual has good information on functionality.

I’m guessing you didn’t read my post. Since I fully describe what can be done with left hand stalk and what more it could do, telling me to read the manual is not helpful.

 

[Zooner]

so...talking on your phone is fine in these dangerous conditions but the wiper controls are giving you heartburn, LMFAO. You’ll be fine.

This is a UI/UX problem. Not to derail, but it's the same problem I have with wanting to increase fan speed on the air conditioning. While I'm driving, I have to manually reach over and tap the fan, then tap the screen specifically at the spot on the screen for the increase/decrease button. (we all know this) But this is where it is similar to the wiper blades - most of the time I miss the buttons.

I'm not old, I don't have trembling hands, I am not crazy, it's called just simple small buttons and bumpy roads. So I have to deliberately focus on the screen. I have to deliberately anchor my hands. I deliberately press the buttons. This is not quick or easy really, even when I know precisely where the button is on the screen.

We chastise our kids for using cell phones while driving for exactly this reason. Anything that forces your attention away from driving adds risk.

I can live with the A/C issue since that isn't something that ever requires attention. It's vanity by comparison.

If holding the left stalk button keeps the blades going then great, but that might be a slow rate. I do believe there needs to be a way to turn on and increase rate of blades without taking eyes off the road. I've been in sudden downpours before and it's highly unnerving. Perhaps a double press of the left button? If it's off/auto it goes to 1 ... if it's 1, goes to 2, 2 to 3, 3 to off.

Thank you!
Reminder we are all Tesla owners. Criticism & complaints are a way to improve an already great car. Please keep this positive spirit it’s intended.

 

[robh230919]

My $0.02: The Auto setting produces reasonable behavior about 40% of the time. For another 50% of the time, it produces wiping action that's too slow, sometimes (but not often) to the point that visibility is impaired enough that I'd consider it dangerous; and the remaining 10% of the time (usually when first starting up), it's too fast.



I think this is an excellent idea. Posting it here won't do any good, though. I've seen reports that people Tweeting ideas like this at Elon Musk seems to be the most likely way to get such features implemented. (I don't have a Twitter account, so I can't do it myself -- at least, not without opening a Twitter account, which I refuse to do.) Failing that, filing an official bug report might get some action.

Yep, zooner had a clever solution. My idea was to use the stalk button as follows 1) one push for one sweep as existing. 2) two pushes, in quick succession, for normal speed. 3) three quick pushes for high speed. Then one push to reset. I have had a couple of very close calls with approaching lorries on narrow Cornish roads, and getting a torrent of water dumped on the screen and needing the wipers on high speed. It is a shame that no-one has ever explained to EM what haptic feedback means.

 

[JTesmod3]

Wiper controls sucks. Anyone else frustrated and feel this is a significant safety issue? Putting aside that
In heavy traffic, rain, and bumpy state of our roads makes taking eyes off the road to navigate touch screen is very dangerous. No different than doing something on your phone in such a situation.
The fix is easy: When the button for single wipe is clicked, the wiper controls pop on screen for a few moments. Why not during that time enable the left scroll wheel to be used for wiper speed/mode setting?

For me it was an adjustment to the way I drove the car...if anytime I need to make a adjustment I make sure that its clear and put on autopilot; in general the way you drive a tesla is not the same you drive any other car, so it takes some adjustments for sure.

 

[puckpurnell]

With 2020.4.1, I’m able to push the right scroll knob and say, “Set wipers to three (or one or two)” and get a satisfactory result 85% of the time. You might also be able to say, “Run wipers at three” then there’s no confusion about “to two” or the like. Try it, you might like it.

 

[pscarroll]

IMHO if the controls of a vehicle are too difficult for you to understand or to use, then you either need a different car or shouldn't be driving in first place. I've had no issues with the wipers or changing them for current conditions, they aren't dangerous if you know how to use them. If you can't use them either learn how or give up driving. A separate issue is auto wipers which has gotten better but I like it more than wipers I've used on other vehicles.

 

[TheWalkingDad]

I found if you hit the audio button and yell an expletive at the wipers, it increases it by 1 speed.

 

[Kognos]

IMHO if the controls of a vehicle are too difficult for you to understand or to use, then you either need a different car or shouldn't be driving in first place. I've had no issues with the wipers or changing them for current conditions, they aren't dangerous if you know how to use them. If you can't use them either learn how or give up driving. A separate issue is auto wipers which has gotten better but I like it more than wipers I've used on other vehicles.

Respectfully disagree.

There's a big ... almost huge ... difference between difficult controls and something I would call ergonomics in this case. The wipers are the only control-set that has almost completely changed, and in doing so has created a risk factor.

One of the last major patches was promoting the whole AI use of wipers. At the time I said it was better, but now that time has passed I still agree it's better but it's cosmically stupid at the same time. My belief is that the automation/AI entirely relies upon moment-in-time data and doesn't often look at any other inputs other than the number of droplets detected.

The practical problem is that I'm sitting at the entrance ramp to a highway at zero. Wiper blades are slow because it's a sprinkle and thats ok. Traffic is moderate. However when I rapidly accelerate to 60+ to merge to traffic, the rain splatter and other car wheel splash on the highway gets to immediate non-visibility and the AI doesn't seem to care -- both about the obvious increase in speed which would ALWAYS create more effect (hello Mythbusters -- running through rain actually gets more rain!) so the wipers seem to be stuck on slower speeds.

Now this is where people get hung up. Clearly I know how to deal with that. But I shouldn't have to. I can mash the button over and over to force the wipers to go. But I shouldn't have to - and it's another thing I would have to do while merging into highway traffic at high speeds and changing lanes. Stressy enough! Do I wait long enough until I can't freaking see? That's dangerous. Do I look down to set the wiper speed while I can't see, so I CAN see? etc etc. Mashing the button is the only practical safe option I have til I can take my eyes off the wheel to set the wiper speed. Thankfully now I can do that with voice control but that still takes time - if I were to do that safely I had better do that before I start. And sometimes (still) voice control doesn't respond.

I want to trust the car but this is a case where I can't, because the car AI for wipers is stupid. In the few months since the last AI patch for wipers, the wipers have never ever ever (not once, in any condition) gotten to a constant wipe and stuck there. It's always intermittent, no matter how much rain falls, and always to a point where my vision is clearly obscured before it wipes again. It has never ever improved since then, no matter how much Tesla says "it learns" ... it hasn't, or if it has, it only "learns" through software updates, and hasn't gotten to a point where it's reasonable.

Mechanically I know all of my options and the only safe one is not to rely on automatic wipers. I mean seriously, is wiper use so much of a power drain that somehow Tesla feels it's better to allow us to be blinded vs potentially over-using them?? (Um, no -- so where is the safety here?)

Since I like being solution oriented, I think the best option here is better intelligence for this system. Wipers should simply speed up / slow down the faster / slower you go and use AI as augmentation. That simple programmatic change would work wonders. It seems to totally not care about speed and rely entirely on discovered drops, which while improved, isn't safe. Since it isn't safe I can't rely on it.

For what it's worth, I live in Oregon where it sprinkle-rains nearly half the year.