Track pack is here!

[Gasaraki]

I just want torque-vectoring on my LR like the SH-AWD.

 

[dfwatt]

I just want torque-vectoring on my LR like the SH-AWD.

Well I think it's actually already there in track mode.

 

[Brian N]

Interesting. Thanks for clarifying that. It suggests that they flirted with violating truth in advertising and you had to wonder how any forged wheel could weigh 28 lbs. I'd have to say that the whole Track Pack thing was badly managed. They need to get somebody in there who knows what they're doing. This kind of product just screams Amateur hour.

Honestly seems about right to me. I wouldn’t be that harsh. My e46 m3 with “competition” package came with larger 19 inch rims that were flow formed (front weight 26.1lbs rear 27.3lbs) made by BBS no less. Then upgraded rotors drilled/floating rotors that weren’t amazing on track and would crack at the holes. Then a “m-track” mode which was basically a version of traction control more oriented to beginner track guys if you didn’t want to turn it completely off.

Just a more sporty street car pretty much that may be slightly better on track. Which is what all these upgrades packages from most car manufacturers are anyways. I wouldn’t say it’s really for hardcore track guys at all. Not many OEM solutions are though.

What they really should do is just re label it as a competition package or something. So people don’t get angry at the verbiage. Offer it as a 2-3k upgrade on the performance model on the configurator and use wider PS4S tires instead of sport cup 2.

 

[dfwatt]

Honestly seems about right to me. I wouldn’t be that harsh. My e46 m3 with “competition” package came with larger 19 inch rims that were flow formed (front weight 26.1lbs rear 27.3lbs) made by BBS no less. Then upgraded rotors drilled/floating rotors that weren’t amazing on track and would crack at the holes. Then a “m-track” mode which was basically a version of traction control more oriented to beginner track guys if you didn’t want to turn it completely off.

Just a more sporty street car pretty much that may be slightly better on track. Which is what all these upgrades packages from most car manufacturers are anyways. I wouldn’t say it’s really for hardcore track guys at all. Not many OEM solutions are though.

What they really should do is just re label it as a competition package or something. So people don’t get angry at the verbiage. Offer it as a 2-3k upgrade on the performance model on the configurator and use wider PS4S tires instead of sport cup 2.

For sure those are fair points. I actually think that the sport cup 2 tires are the only truly sporty track-ready part of the package. And interestingly enough the 235/35 OEM tires that are Tesla Spec are believe it or not wider than any 245 / 35 Tire made by Michelin in that Pilot Sport 4S version. If you look at Tire Rack website spec sheet on that tire the Tesla spec 235 / 35 is roughly as wide in terms of tread anyway as an average of several 255 / 35. But they just don't hold up to the heat of tracking.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

For sure those are fair points. I actually think that the sport cup 2 tires are the only truly sporty track-ready part of the package. And interestingly enough the 235/35 OEM tires that are Tesla Spec are believe it or not wider than any 245 / 35 Tire made by Michelin in that Pilot Sport 4S version. If you look at Tire Rack website spec sheet on that tire the Tesla spec 235 / 35 is roughly as wide in terms of tread anyway as an average of several 255 / 35. But they just don't hold up to the heat of tracking.

To be fair, it's not all about the width of the tyre. Without modifying the suspension the factory setup doesn't allow for much negative camber so the stock tyres are going to suffer from premature shoulder wear, whereas the Cup2s with reinforced shoulders, will last much longer on track. They really are very good in this respect on a P3D.

 

[dfwatt]

To be fair, it's not all about the width of the tyre. Without modifying the suspension the factory setup doesn't allow for much negative camber so the stock tyres are going to suffer from premature shoulder wear, whereas the Cup2s with reinforced shoulders, will last much longer on track. They really are very good in this respect on a P3D.

Clearly.

 

[beastmode13]

I ordered the rear "track package pads" from Tesla because my current Endless EX90 track pads have serious brake drag due to the lack of spring tabs that are on the OEM rear pads. They were adding ~30wh/mi to my energy usage and tons of dust.

The Tesla track pads are quite overpriced, $500 for the rears only. I haven't taken them to the track yet but I'd imagine they're a compromise between stock and the Endless pads I was running. But at least I have no more pad drag which is why I got them.

I use CRC disk brake quiet to “glue” the outboard pads without clip to the caliper. Works very well to reduce drag and noise from lose pads. It’s easy to remove CRC when it’s time for new pads.

 

[Dolemite]

I use CRC disk brake quiet to “glue” the outboard pads without clip to the caliper. Works very well to reduce drag and noise from lose pads. It’s easy to remove CRC when it’s time for new pads.

Every time I've used this stuff, it doesn't set the pad properly and I start getting bizarre disc wear. Maybe I was doing something wrong...

 

[fiveangle]

I ordered the rear "track package pads" from Tesla…

The Tesla track pads are quite overpriced, $500 for the rears only.

I’d imagine the front pads to be the priority upgrade over the rears. Is there a reason you opted for the rears over the fronts? Or is it because to have the Endless pads on the front and for some reason they don’t drag like the rears ?

I’ve got a $500 credit with Tesla that will expire shortly so trying to figure out what to spend it on. I was thinking maybe the pads from the Track Pack but geeze $500 for one axle seems redic.

How are they in day to day driving ? No squeal ?

Would it be worth getting them for the fronts to run with the stock rears, or would you skip them entirely and stick with aftermarket ?

I suppose I can just buy an HPWC for $500 with my credit and then try to peddle it

Btw- I would have never paid for them myself, but getting them as referral, they looked pretty stunning IRL, so I opted to sell the OEM tires that they came with and put 255/35 PS4Ses on them and absolutely love the added impact protection of the larger tire, plus sticks so much better in the corners as I can run lower pressure. The streets of San Francisco are not kind to the OEM 20 wheels with those 235s but these 255s just soak up the impacts =p

 

[FlyNavy01]

Or is it because to have the Endless pads on the front and for some reason they don’t drag like the rears ?

I’ve got a $500 credit with Tesla that will expire shortly so trying to figure out what to spend it on. I was thinking maybe the pads from the Track Pack but geeze $500 for one axle seems redic.

How are they in day to day driving ? No squeal ?

Would it be worth getting them for the fronts to run with the stock rears, or would you skip them entirely and stick with aftermarket ?

Yep, I had Endless pads on all 4 corners but the rears were dragging and creating tons of rust colored brake dust when commuting. I decided to leave endless pads up front and go with the track pads in the rear as a compromise, since the OEM track pads retain the spring clips that hold the rear pads off the rotors when not in use. You're correct that the fronts obviously have a higher load under aggressive braking, so this seems to be working well so far, although I haven't tracked this configuration yet.

Zero squeal and much less dust, but I agree they're overpriced. If you're doing tracks days I'd recommend going straight to aftermarket, but if you're just doing occasional spirited mountain drives I'd say upgrading the fronts to the track pads might be a good idea with your credit. Wheels look good!

 

[fiveangle]

…if you're just doing occasional spirited mountain drives I'd say upgrading the fronts to the track pads might be a good idea with your credit. Wheels look good!

I attended TeslaCorsa 2 which was enough to realize that 1) stock pads are worse than my fiancé’s stock Civic pads… pathetic really, and 2) I don’t need to be tracking my $80k DD that would need about $8k of upgrades to be able to barely meet the fun factor of my E36 M3 in order to get a single 15min session every 2hrs - lol.

Nope, the P3 will be relegated to canyon cutting Bay Area back roads with my BMW/Porsche/McLaren friends + the occasional autocross domination

To address #1, I’m thoroughly in need of a pad improvement and have no problem resolving the retraction issue myself, even if it means riveting the stock clip onto the aftermarket (just spit balling — I’ve not even seen them yet so won’t know until I do).

So if you don’t mind me asking, in your opinion, have you found a streetable pad that mimics typical stock German sports car street pad compromise ? Basically, low/no squeal, reasonable resistance to high-temp gassing, typically at the expense of dust generation & rotor wear) ?

Would you characterize these pads you have in the front in this category ? And if not, do you have any other candidates on the horizon you’re considering ?

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your input. Our Tesla community is wrought with what we used to call in the retail sporting goods space, “equipment weenies” who can regurgitate every marketing talking point of every “top” product but still aren’t any better at whatever it is they think they’re trying to accomplish. The ratio of true motorsport enthusiasts vs equipment weenies seems to be especially low in the Tesla circles so we racer types need to recognize each other and work to try and keep the S/N ratio higher =)

Thanks again !

-=dave

 

[MasterC17]

I attended TeslaCorsa 2 which was enough to realize that 1) stock pads are worse than my fiancé’s stock Civic pads… pathetic really, and 2) I don’t need to be tracking my $80k DD that would need about $8k of upgrades to be able to barely meet the fun factor of my E36 M3 in order to get a single 15min session every 2hrs - lol.

Nope, the P3 will be relegated to canyon cutting Bay Area back roads with my BMW/Porsche/McLaren friends + the occasional autocross domination

To address #1, I’m thoroughly in need of a pad improvement and have no problem resolving the retraction issue myself, even if it means riveting the stock clip onto the aftermarket (just spit balling — I’ve not even seen them yet so won’t know until I do).

So if you don’t mind me asking, in your opinion, have you found a streetable pad that mimics typical stock German sports car street pad compromise ? Basically, low/no squeal, reasonable resistance to high-temp gassing, typically at the expense of dust generation & rotor wear) ?

Would you characterize these pads you have in the front in this category ? And if not, do you have any other candidates on the horizon you’re considering ?

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your input. Our Tesla community is wrought with what we used to call in the retail sporting goods space, “equipment weenies” who can regurgitate every marketing talking point of every “top” product but still aren’t any better at whatever it is they think they’re trying to accomplish. The ratio of true motorsport enthusiasts vs equipment weenies seems to be especially low in the Tesla circles so we racer types need to recognize each other and work to try and keep the S/N ratio higher =)

Thanks again !

-=dave

As far as options for the P3D+ go, honestly the RB XT-910 or XT-970 is a pretty good high performance street pad. I'm not a huge fan of RB themselves, but the pads are generally quiet, low-dust, and can take the heat. For the front axle, the 970 is probably the better option, but it really depends on your use. They also come with high-temp double sided tape for the rears to keep them in place.

 

[kbecks13]

So if you don’t mind me asking, in your opinion, have you found a streetable pad that mimics typical stock German sports car street pad compromise ? Basically, low/no squeal, reasonable resistance to high-temp gassing, typically at the expense of dust generation & rotor wear) ?

Would you characterize these pads you have in the front in this category ? And if not, do you have any other candidates on the horizon you’re considering ?

I'd tell you a great pad for this, but don't wanna be an equipment weenie

 

[FlyNavy01]

So if you don’t mind me asking, in your opinion, have you found a streetable pad that mimics typical stock German sports car street pad compromise ? Basically, low/no squeal, reasonable resistance to high-temp gassing, typically at the expense of dust generation & rotor wear) ?

Would you characterize these pads you have in the front in this category ? And if not, do you have any other candidates on the horizon you’re considering ?

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate your input. Our Tesla community is wrought with what we used to call in the retail sporting goods space, “equipment weenies” who can regurgitate every marketing talking point of every “top” product but still aren’t any better at whatever it is they think they’re trying to accomplish. The ratio of true motorsport enthusiasts vs equipment weenies seems to be especially low in the Tesla circles so we racer types need to recognize each other and work to try and keep the S/N ratio higher =)

Thanks again !

-=dave

Thanks for the kinds words! Sadly I do agree the majority of Tesla owners are not traditional car enthusiasts but often more of the tech crowd. You can see this in a lot of the aftermarket vendors and the junk they sell (eg. rubber caliper covers and lighted logos, etc.) which are embarrassing and cheapen the brand IMO. There are a dozen or so frequent posters and experienced racers on this sub-forum that I've found who have been very helpful for performance modifications. MasterC17, dfwatt, kbecks, MountainPass obviously, etc.

My Endless pads haven't squealed once during daily driving. They do have a distinct yet short release noise at low speeds. For example, I hear it when in the drive-thru with my window down when I let off the pedal, but it doesn't bother me. They've held up to 9 track days this year and still have a decent amount of material left on them. They do dust more, but it's really only bad after a rainy day due to the high iron content.

After these wear out I will likely try some G-Loc pads, as their entire line is now available for the P3D. I've been very impressed with the Endless pads however and would recommend them as a great dual purpose option that it sounds like you may be looking for.

 

[fiveangle]

MasterC17 and FlyNavy01, thanks a lot for the earnest recommendations. I’ll circle back at some point with any followup info/experience that might be useful for others.

kbecks: if your advice was that of an equipment weenie, it wouldn’t be worth the electrons it was transmitted on

 

[MarcG]

+1 for Endless pads. I finally switched to EX99 after trying RacingBrake XT910 and 970, which just didn’t cut it on the track (and the 970’s also squeaked).
The Endless EX99 pads aren’t cheap but really worth it IMHO.

 

[kbecks13]

kbecks: if your advice was that of an equipment weenie, it wouldn’t be worth the electrons it was transmitted on

You come in here basically insulting the community and yet ask for advice then take it from random people on the internet who you don't know after just insulting the credibility of those same people, just a little ironic

That said, Endless pads have a great reputation from some very reputable people and i think you can confidently buy those!

 

[fiveangle]

You come in here basically insulting the community and yet ask for advice then take it from random people on the internet who you don't know after just insulting the credibility of those same people, just a little ironic

If you haven’t observed the general lack of crossover performance vehicle enthusiasts in the countless Tesla FB groups, TY channels, many forums, etc, then I’m actually envious. It’s generally an endless stream of yet another FB post about some guys new wheel + tire + slammed spring install or yet another Model 3 power trunk or puddle lights YT review video. It feels more like I’m on Hondatech rather than N54Tech

[disclaimer: In another life I used do PGM-Fi reverse engineering for doing custom in-ecu programming, nitrous injection, launch control, full throttle shift, etc, and hosted the first pgmfi wiki that later transferred to pgmfi.org — a forum that sprung out of the necessity to boost the S/N ratio from that of Hondatech in order to attain critical mass of true tech people in order to actually accomplish that very difficult collaborative stuff, but I digress…].

I didn’t see it as insulting the same community I am asking help from. I felt it more expressing a shared frustration rather than directed angst. ‘Didn’t mean it to sound like the latter.

Thanks for the Endless upvote tip. Sounds like it’s a no brainier.

 

[Dangerous Fish]

I ordered the rear "track package pads" from Tesla because my current Endless EX90 track pads have serious brake drag due to the lack of spring tabs that are on the OEM rear pads. They were adding ~30wh/mi to my energy usage and tons of dust.

The Tesla track pads are quite overpriced, $500 for the rears only. I haven't taken them to the track yet but I'd imagine they're a compromise between stock and the Endless pads I was running. But at least I have no more pad drag which is why I got them.

Did you take any photos of the Tesla track pack pads you can share? Was there any non-Tesla branding or ID on them?

 

[dfwatt]

If you haven’t observed the general lack of crossover performance vehicle enthusiasts in the countless Tesla FB groups, TY channels, many forums, etc, then I’m actually envious. It’s generally an endless stream of yet another FB post about some guys new wheel + tire + slammed spring install or yet another Model 3 power trunk or puddle lights YT review video. It feels more like I’m on Hondatech rather than N54Tech

[disclaimer: In another life I used do PGM-Fi reverse engineering for doing custom in-ecu programming, nitrous injection, launch control, full throttle shift, etc, and hosted the first pgmfi wiki that later transferred to pgmfi.org — a forum that sprung out of the necessity to boost the S/N ratio from that of Hondatech in order to attain critical mass of true tech people in order to actually accomplish that very difficult collaborative stuff, but I digress…].

I didn’t see it as insulting the same community I am asking help from. I felt it more expressing a shared frustration rather than directed angst. ‘Didn’t mean it to sound like the latter.

Thanks for the Endless upvote tip. Sounds like it’s a no brainier.

That might explain your prejudice against a subset of the community that you regard as 'weenies' but it's still something that you need to rein in a bit. It's fine for you to have little respect for people whose interests don't jive with yours but it's not okay to express that disrespect in a public forum. No one is forcing you to have dialogues with people who you regard as having insufficient pedigree in regards to tracking the car. The fact that you have to sift through posts from people with that lack of pedigree is just the cost of doing business here. Other people who don't share your interests might feel the inverse prejudice against people who are track obsessed.

We all have to respect each other's differences and different interests. Hopefully we all share a strong interest in the virtues of Tesla's technology, both from the standpoint of performance and ecology, a belief in the Tesla products, and respect for the environment. It would be a shame if we added to that impressive list of different kinds of respect a lack of respect for each other. And this is coming from someone who sometimes loses it in regard to other people on The Forum. I've mostly contributed lately to the coronavirus thread where I frequently have to count to ten and walk away as opposed to posting what I actually think and feel. So I'm not presenting myself as a role model.