Tracking P85D delivery thread

[breser]

I feel worse for people who ordered the 85D looking at the 295 miles of range that just got slashed back to the range of the regular 85...

As one of those people I don't understand that at all. It was only 295 miles for a week or two max. Then it was 285 at 65 mph constant. Now it's 265 EPA. I thought it was pretty clear from the beginning that the EPA numbers would be lower. People were comparing the 295 to the 265 so Tesla finally put numbers so you could compare and it was only 275 (S85) vs 285 (S85D) at 65 mph constant. As far as I'm concerned I'm just happy that the 85D hasn't lost any range really.

I said way back when after the D even that nobody should be buying a D on the basis of increased range until the EPA number came in.

The P85D is the only new number. The 60 and the 85 are unchanged, and the 85D has the same EPA rating as the 85.

Say what? The 85D is a new number. I don't think Tesla is recycling the S85 number here. If they were going to do that they'd have just put up 265 to begin with.

 

[wk057]

As one of those people I don't understand that at all. It was only 295 miles for a week or two max. Then it was 285 at 65 mph constant. Now it's 265 EPA. I thought it was pretty clear from the beginning that the EPA numbers would be lower. People were comparing the 295 to the 265 so Tesla finally put numbers so you could compare and it was only 275 (S85) vs 285 (S85D) at 65 mph constant. As far as I'm concerned I'm just happy that the 85D hasn't lost any range really.

I said way back when after the D even that nobody should be buying a D on the basis of increased range until the EPA number came in.

Say what? The 85D is a new number. I don't think Tesla is recycling the S85 number here. If they were going to do that they'd have just put up 265 to begin with.

The basics behind it were that the D was more efficient, and thus have more range. If this is the case, why isn't it reflected in the EPA numbers? Sure, it is more efficient at highway speeds and that is what we need generally, but, it is disappointing that the numbers don't stack up to reflect this appropriately.

Specifically with the 85D, it was advertised with 295 for a while, and I'm sure a lot of people bought based on that increase only now to see that the EPA range is the same as the regular 85... disappointing at the very least that none of the EPA range numbers reflect the hyped increase in efficiency of Tesla's AWD setup.

 

[redox]

Communication is clearly not their strongest suit. I hope things will unclog this coming week. Everyone (here) is anxiously waiting!

-- Greg

 

[gpetti]

Excellent initiative, Andrew.

+ 1

 

[mrElbe]

Excellent initiative, Andrew.

Excellent letter, Andrew. It expresses our state of mind to the fullest at the moment. Thanks for writing this.

 

[sundoc]

@Andrew

Thanks for penning that letter. Let's hope you get a response which sheds at least a little light on what's going on.

While I eagerly await my D, I know that the delay is something which will invariably be beneficial in the long run, be it an EPA issue, a fit and finish issue or whatever else. Having said that some communication wouldn't hurt though, especially since I'm pretty sure my car is completed and sitting there (as are several others).

In my personal situation, I've actually been waiting since July 27, when I placed my order for the P85+... Went through the factory shut down, followed by slow start up and then switched out/upgraded to the P85D the day it became available. So yeah it's been a little bit of a wait but as I've stated elsewhere... There could be much worse things we're sitting around waiting for.

 

[wk057]

There could be much worse things we're sitting around waiting for.

The better and more anticipated the thing you're anxiously waiting for is, the harder the wait.

 

[electrish]

@Andrew, thanks for writing the letter, which eloquently expresses the concerns raised in this forum.

@wk057, I really feel your pain. I think that problems with communication are at the root of almost all interpersonal problems and can't understand why Tesla doesn't proactively address the issues.

My great fear is that the problem, whatever it is, may actually be worse than we think. Unless the spreadsheet is highly weighted towards orders fulfilled during the first week of production, I don't see the silver lining yet, since 50% less vehicles went into production during the second week compared with the first week. I guess, events during the upcoming week will be telling, and I'll keep my fingers crossed!

 

[AWDtsla]

I am running out of patience. Tesla has a bad habit of over promising and under delivering. The fact that they are still promising December deliveries on their website is down right disgusting when people who ordered cars 1 minute after the announcement still do not know when they'll get their cars. It does not bode well for Tesla's integrity.

Just let it come when it does then publicly smash it up with a bat, like that spoiled brat from China.

 

[403portside]

FWIW, my DS told me today that at least 200 cars are done and waiting at the factory in storage. Not sure if this is redundant info.

 

[wk057]

FWIW, my DS told me today that at least 200 cars are done and waiting at the factory in storage. Not sure if this is redundant info.

Seems like more random info that can't be corroborated to file under "Excuses from DS's."

 

[403portside]

Seems like more random info that can't be corroborated to file under "Excuses from DS's."

Ummm...I don't think she would have lied about it. I wasn't asking her to speculate on anything and she just offered it up, so I think it could be credible.

 

[wk057]

It would make no sense to me to have the cars piled up at the factory.

They could ship them to the service centers and store them there until whatever paperwork/EPA/whatever needed doing before delivering them, and they would be ready for customers as soon as that was done.

Even if there were a software issue... ship them and fix it before delivery.

Hardware issue... ship them, then overnight the parts to the service centers, have them fix before delivery.

Major technical issue... sit them at the factory?

Makes little sense to me unless there is some major screw up at work here.

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Ummm...I don't think she would have lied about it. I wasn't asking her to speculate on anything and she just offered it up, so I think it could be credible.

Didn't say it was a lie, just said it was yet another piece of info from a DS we have no way to confirm... and a piece of information that doesn't make a lot of sense (see above).

 

[403portside]

That's fair. Wouldn't the Moroney sticker issue be enough to hold them back?

 

[wk057]

Stickers would fit nicely into an overnight envelope... makes no sense to physically hold the entire car at the factory because it lacks a sticker when they could just as easily be shipped and stored at the delivery location until that issue was straightened out and be ready with limited delay.

Thus far no DS explanation makes enough sense yet, as far as I can tell.

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Heck, those stickers are just printed on large paper anyway... the service centers have printers. Print them when it's done and give me my car. lol

 

[403portside]

Stickers would fit nicely into an overnight envelope... makes no sense to physically hold the entire car at the factory because it lacks a sticker when they could just as easily be shipped and stored at the delivery location until that issue was straightened out and be ready with limited delay.

Thus far no DS explanation makes enough sense yet, as far as I can tell.

I don't think the issue is physical logistics. I think the issue is about letting cars that have *some* issue leave the factory. I think nailing every aspect of these initial P85Ds will be crucial for them.

In other words, it's a philosophical issue for them

 

[Andyw2100]

It would make no sense to me to have the cars piled up at the factory.

Hardware issue... ship them, then overnight the parts to the service centers, have them fix before delivery.

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I think if they did have a hardware issue it might be a lot better for them to just keep the cars there and fix them there and deliver them all a week or two later and deal with the customers being a little disappointed about getting their cars a week or two later as opposed to having to deal with the possible news stories about "Tesla New Top Of The Line P85D Needs Repairs Before They Can Even Be Delivered."

I mean right now we're the only ones who have any real inkling that there has been any sort of delay. But if Tesla started shipping the cars all around the US and Canada, and then had to fix them before letting customers take delivery, I could definitely see that leading to bad press. If you were Elon Musk in this hypothetical situation where your P85D that you're so proud of has a problem right out of the gate, wouldn't you want to keep control of it, by keeping the cars at the factory?

 

[wk057]

I don't think the issue is physical logistics. I think the issue is about letting cars that have *some* issue leave the factory. I think nailing every aspect of these initial P85Ds will be crucial for them.

In other words, it's a philosophical issue for them

Just playing devil's advocate here, but I think if they did have a hardware issue it might be a lot better for them to just keep the cars there and fix them there and deliver them all a week or two later and deal with the customers being a little disappointed about getting their cars a week or two later as opposed to having to deal with the possible news stories about "Tesla New Top Of The Line P85D Needs Repairs Before They Can Even Be Delivered."

I mean right now we're the only ones who have any real inkling that there has been any sort of delay. But if Tesla started shipping the cars all around the US and Canada, and then had to fix them before letting customers take delivery, I could definitely see that leading to bad press. If you were Elon Musk in that situation, wouldn't you want to keep control of it, by keeping the cars at the factory?

Probably makes sense in the sense of a major hardware flaw. If there is a major hardware flaw, however... well, that just doesn't bode well period.

If it were something relatively simple (say, less than 1 hour of labor to correct at a service center) it would still make sense to ship and then fix.

But if they're seriously not shipping cars from the factory simply because they lack the monroney sticker then I want to slap Elon Musk around a bit with a large trout.

 

[nolancn]

Tesla did not claim 285 miles EPA range for the P85D. Tesla claimed 285 miles range at 65 mph.
EPA doesn't report range at 65 mph. However EPA does report MPGe for city, highway, and combined city/highway, which are measures of efficiency. For those, EPA ratings are:

S85 and P85 - 88 city, 90 highway, 89 combined city/highway
P85D - 86 city, 94 highway, 89 combined city/highway (unofficial, not yet officially sanctioned by EPA)

So on the highway the P85D is estimated to be (94-90)/90 = 4% more efficient than the S85 or P85.

For myself, the only time the range of my S85 is constraining is on long highway trips I take a few times per year. For my long road trips, the highway efficiency is what matters. The car's range in stop-and-go city traffic is irrelevant for those trips. For highway trips it sounds like the P85D would have slightly more range than an S85 or P85.

For my day-to-day driving that is a combination of city and highway driving, I'm not range limited. I charge to 80% each night and that is more than enough. Even if the city efficiency was a little worse, it wouldn't constrain my driving at all.

My thoughts exactly! I strongly suspect that the P85D will deliver at the very least similar range as the S85, but I am hoping for an approximate 4% increase in highway range over my now traded S85.

 

[andrewket]

Stickers would fit nicely into an overnight envelope... makes no sense to physically hold the entire car at the factory because it lacks a sticker when they could just as easily be shipped and stored at the delivery location until that issue was straightened out and be ready with limited delay.

Thus far no DS explanation makes enough sense yet, as far as I can tell.

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Heck, those stickers are just printed on large paper anyway... the service centers have printers. Print them when it's done and give me my car. lol

In the states where Tesla is not allowed to sell direct, the transaction must complete while the car is in California. It's possible that the issue, whatever it is, does not allow Tesla to legally sell the car. Thus, the car must remain in California until the issue is resolved. For the states where Tesla can sell direct, Tesla may have decided that shipping the cars to the field represents too much risk that the transaction might accidentally be completed before the issue is resolved.

It's also possible that the cars are all 99% complete, and are just waiting for one last part. Next Gen seats, perhaps. We've seen the front seats on several cars, but very few rear seats.