Tried a FSD subscription. It's not worth it...

I bit the bullet and tried the FSD one-month subscription option for a 1700 mile road trip this past weekend in my 2020 Model 3 Standard Plus. My opinion: not worth it.

Full Self Driving is just a terrible name for what is essentially Autopilot+. I'd imagine your commute would need to involve nothing but freeway driving to get much benefit from a $200 a month subscription, and definitely not $12000.

Summon is one of those features that's neat to play with, and might come in handy once in a blue moon. I'd pay $5 to sneak the car out of a tight spot once in a while, but not a recurring subscription.

Navigate on autopilot did relieve the necessity to keep turning autopilot off and back on every time I wanted to change lanes, which begs the question of why Tesla requires you to turn the autopilot off and back on just to change lanes. The cruise control worked the same as before, and honestly, I can handle lane changes on my own.

Stoplight and stop sign handling was terrible. It ID'd stop signs that weren't there, stopped the car in the middle of a highway, and tries to stop for most green lights unless you remember to tell it not to. It stopped for no reason multiple times during the trip. This in turn caused more safety hazards than if I just disabled it to begin with.

Autopilot is generally a great tool. You can turn it on, pay attention, and not really worry too much about your car doing things you'd rather it not do. FSD adds a whole new level of anxiety and complexity that is in no way a finished product. I can't imagine the FSD Beta being any better. I could understand it if it weren't so expensive, but at $12000/$200 per month, it is wildly overpriced. I've already canceled the subscription, and I doubt I'll be missing anything when it ends except the ability to impress friends by letting the car mope around a parking lot by itself.

("Tesla Autopilot Engaged in Model X.jpg" by Ian Maddox is licensed under CC BY 4.0.)

 

[Knightshade]

Don’t let @Knightshade find out you said this

Why?

He agreed with me on the items I had to correct you on earlier.

Standard AP in a plane is quite similar to AP in a Tesla. So the name as used by Tesla is accurate.

And if you want more advanced features, you need to pay for OTHER things that ARE NOT AUTOPILOT but may sometimes interact with it.

 

[OliverM3]

Why?

He agreed with me on the items I had to correct you on earlier.

Standard AP in a plane is quite similar to AP in a Tesla. So the name as used by Tesla is accurate.

And if you want more advanced features, you need to pay for OTHER things that ARE NOT AUTOPILOT but may sometimes interact with it.

They will have to add them eventually to be competitive for free. Every advanced cruise control system typically has autopark and from what I've seen it's better than FSD. I know the i3 worked great and so did my audi. Though lane assisted cruise was a bouncy mess the tesla is so much better.

 

[Knightshade]

They will have to add them eventually to be competitive for free.

Not sure why you think so.

CRs last test of a dozen different systems found Tesla to be superior to every one of them in actual performance and capabilities.

Apart from which Tesla is backordered into next year on many of their models.

"competition" isn't really a relevant factor at this point.

Every advanced cruise control system typically has autopark and from what I've seen it's better than FSD. I know the i3 worked great and so did my audi. Though lane assisted cruise was a bouncy mess the tesla is so much better.

Exactly.

Everyone elses system is worse in multiple ways, even if they include "for free" autopark.

Not to mention in many cases it's not really "free" it requires a higher trim more expensive model to get it.

Before they stopped selling it, blaming the chip shortage, GMs supercruise added like 15-25k to the price of a car if that was the ONLY thing you wanted above the base model because it forced you into a more expensive trim to get it.

 

[OliverM3]

Not sure why you think so.

CRs last test of a dozen different systems found Tesla to be superior to every one of them in actual performance and capabilities.

Apart from which Tesla is backordered into next year on many of their models.

"competition" isn't really a relevant factor at this point.




Exactly.

Everyone elses system is worse in multiple ways, even if they include "for free" autopark.

Not to mention in many cases it's not really "free" it requires a higher trim more expensive model to get it.

Before they stopped selling it, blaming the chip shortage, GMs supercruise added like 15-25k to the price of a car if that was the ONLY thing you wanted above the base model because it forced you into a more expensive trim to get it.

Oh I just meant the park assist tesla's looks awkward and doesn't see spots correctly. I haven't used it though. No FSD I'm only basing this off of videos I've watched. The adaptive cruise (autopilot) with Tesla I think is fantastic it's super smooth the way it stays in the lane. My Audi was *sugar* it felt like i was playing bumper bowling and these bumpers were pushing me back in to the lane. But it parked well.

 

[ThomasD]

GM charges 25 dollars a month for super cruise. That is on top of what they charge for On Star.

 

[Knightshade]

Oh I just meant the park assist tesla's looks awkward and doesn't see spots correctly. I haven't used it though. No FSD I'm only basing this off of videos I've watched. The adaptive cruise (autopilot) with Tesla I think is fantastic it's super smooth the way it stays in the lane. My Audi was *sugar* it felt like i was playing bumper bowling and these bumpers were pushing me back in to the lane. But it parked well.

FWIW the "old" autopark in Teslas did suck pretty badly.

But the newer vision based one is a lot better.

I still manually park 99% of the time, but it's perfectly functional now, and no longer requires neighboring cars to "see" a spot or anything and can just park between lines with no other cars around needed.

 

[Ramphex]

GM charges 25 dollars a month for super cruise. That is on top of what they charge for On Star.

That’s 40 years of SuperCruise for $12,000…. Or keep the car for 10 years and only pay $3,000.

 

[OliverM3]

yeah i think park shouldn't be included in the robotaxi price tag it should be free. And have you seen the rims on the M3 owners cars? It's a public service to help them park.

 

[captanzuelo]

I wasn't anxious before I paid the money. It took several phantom braking moments on highways, in daylight, when I'm driving 60+ MPH in traffic, inability to tell if my car is actually going to handle an exit or change lanes until the last moment, and straight-up slamming on the brakes at night for a stop sign that didn't exist that made me anxious. All this in the course of a weekend.

The worst is when it phantom brakes with a big diesel redneck truck driving close behind you. Those guys get super offended and take it as a green peace yuppy purposely brake checked them. Then they will proceed to do things like, swerve in front of you. Brake check you, and roll coal. Maybe even flick their cigarette butt at you.

 

[OliverM3]

The worst is when it phantom brakes with a big diesel redneck truck driving close behind you. Those guys get super offended and take it as a green peace yuppy purposely brake checked them. Then they will proceed to do things like, swerve in front of you. Brake check you, and roll coal. Maybe even flick their cigarette butt at you.

You have that in LA too? Thought those guys were just here in PA. Can you even have a gun rack in the back window there?

 

[Sunvalleylaw]

I would say that $200 is more of a "Licking the arrow" than "Bitting the bullet".

sipping the grape kool-aid?

Just kidding, relax, you fans. I hope the project succeeds, I really do.

 

[Sunvalleylaw]

It does all the things you complained about correctly. Every turn and stop light. Yes with basic FSD it will slam on the brakes at a light green or red if you Ignore the request for confirmation. Not Saying you, but it seems many don’t like to research what the capabilities are before hitting the buy button. PB has pretty much disappeared for me. Drive several hundred miles per week and would Not enjoy it as much without the technology.

well, glad to hear of the progress.

 

[JulienW]

sipping the grape kool-aid?

Just kidding, relax, you fans. I hope the project succeeds, I really do.

Did you misquote my post or you don't understand the meaning? My post is in jest and has nothing to do with "sipping the grape kool-aid", being uptight or fanboyism. Biting the bullet refers to going all in at a hard cost or high price. Spending $200 to test out a $12K feature on a $50K car isn't bitting the bullet. In fact it is the opposite.

 

[Sunvalleylaw]

Did you misquote my post or you don't understand the meaning? My post is in jest and has nothing to do with "sipping the grape kool-aid", being uptight or fanboyism. Biting the bullet refers to going all in at a hard cost or high price. Spending $200 to test out a $12K feature on a $50K car isn't bitting the bullet. In fact it is the opposite.

Well, forgive me. I took your joke the wrong way. and tried to add my own little version of what I thought your joke was. I did not misquote your post, as I simply hit the quote button. Sorry, in any case, for misunderstanding.

I do hope the product comes to market in a successful, meaningful way. My brother's in-laws purchased it as they are getting on, and I can see lots of good it could do. Though at this point, I am personally not really interested in spending 12k, nor 200 a month, for what it is now though. And jacking up the price from where it was when I ordered my car, from 10k to 12k, when the reports of the subscribers are like this, seems ballsy to say the least. So I am not in yet. And maybe that means I spend more later. But, I am still in the don't pay for what doesn't exist yet camp.

Anyway, carry on.

 

[Knightshade]

That’s 40 years of SuperCruise for $12,000…. Or keep the car for 10 years and only pay $3,000.

Except it costs $15,000-$25,000 to get supercruise at all if you only wanted it on the base model. Because you can't get it at all unless you pay for the higher trim one that adds that much to the price.

Then they ALSO charge you monthly long term on top of that.

Well- they did when it was available. You can't get it anymore at all because chip shortage and GM is incompetent at supply chain.

And it still does far less than FSD does.


So...not much "competition" there at all.

 

[Ramphex]

Except it costs $15,000-$25,000 to get supercruise at all if you only wanted it on the base model. Because you can't get it at all unless you pay for the higher trim one that adds that much to the price.

Then they ALSO charge you monthly long term on top of that.

Well- they did when it was available. You can't get it anymore at all because chip shortage and GM is incompetent at supply chain.

And it still does far less than FSD does.


So...not much "competition" there at all.

Baby steps, companies will catch up, give it time

 

[Steve Stack]

Well mine is ordered with FSD (12K), and have been going back an forth on it. If I take it out, my car will be delayed more I heard

 

[Sunvalleylaw]

HI all I think you are missing one interesting point about One of the reasons they now charge $12k and make you go through the safety score training and the waiting game for the BETA. For the neural net they need massive amounts of test and case situations data, which they tried to get from mostly employees an a few early early adopters and it wasn't enough. If it was done with the limited test fleet in a few cities, then it would take decades to get to general use case for average consumer( it still might) . Then by charging $12K it makes a person more "committed" to supporting the outcome.. they probably asked . "how much would you pay to us for provide some thing that is a work in progress" 100, 500, 1000, 10000, when they hit 10K people really started to think twice ( some, I am sure stopped at $500) . the $200 /month allows folks to op in to decide if it is for them or not , sort of "pain of entry" , but most will just get a taste of if it works for them in their location and provides a value add beyond an average car. Unless you are really into it I doubt it will. I think they expected that for people on the fence or have a high expectation of perfection it slows those folks from buying.
The other way is to make all the cars >$100k and include it limiting its use to a select few ( which also might not be the best users to have it as having money doesn't necessarily make you a good beta tester, just a good money maker..) Yes, they should PAY US for being guinee pigs (and have good insurance) and maybe make people take a test/ additional training to be sure beta testing is for them ( I have actually done that for other beta projects) and then understand the limitations. but for me, an engineer, and avid AI fan, and able to understand the limitations of the beta process the thing is positively a hoot to test out!.. for me I use it all the time on side roads and long trips, and or just commuting home. it is a 99% for me at the moment ,almost level 3. it needs to be 99.9999 or better for regular unprepared use, that's gonna take a while!. Sure, I pop it out of FSD beta when i don't like what it is doing, in plenty of time and I hit the camera button to send the clip so they can improve it.
I think again it is a matter of expectation ( and the unfortunate literalization of the brand ( yes shame on them) , over hyping/ over selling). I got AP when the car was new in 2017 it was a hoot , then when the right improvements came a long I sprung for FSD ( admittedly I only paid 4K for "the dream, not the reality" It was Sooo Cool when it did it right! . but I used it every chance I got. if participating in a work in progress is not your expectation, especially at $12k then dont get it and maybe even don't get the $200month. I like paying for experiences, and this for me is a very cool experience ( albeit with the responsibility for safety that squarely on me). for me, bring on more features and improvements!!!

I probably would consider it at 4K. Not at 12k. I am a curious person, so on some road trip month I probably will subscribe for a month or two. Especially since I am out in the woods, and on basically 2 lane twisty state highways in the mountains, and/or in small towns mostly, as compared to a lot of Beta testers I would imagine. However, when it is Highway 20, two opposing lanes not separated, and a really long straight stretch that lulls folks to sleep, and is often populated by large long haul trucks hauling ass coming at you, I will be nervous to trust it. I trust my anticipation, accumulated knowledge, and reflexes (well, my decision point, not sure if my reflexes technically would be better) over where it sounds like it is at now.

But no way doing the 12 k thing. I may as well send in my 100k for the mars rocket right now as well. I may well also want that service later too someday, (at least for my kids, probably not in my life time).

 

[2101Guy]

Well mine is ordered with FSD (12K), and have been going back an forth on it. If I take it out, my car will be delayed more I heard

You are paying the $12k for FSD?

 

[yessuz]

I bit the bullet and tried the FSD one-month subscription option for a 1700 mile road trip this past weekend in my 2020 Model 3 Standard Plus. My opinion: not worth it.

Full Self Driving is just a terrible name for what is essentially Autopilot+. I'd imagine your commute would need to involve nothing but freeway driving to get much benefit from a $200 a month subscription, and definitely not $12000.

Summon is one of those features that's neat to play with, and might come in handy once in a blue moon. I'd pay $5 to sneak the car out of a tight spot once in a while, but not a recurring subscription.

Navigate on autopilot did relieve the necessity to keep turning autopilot off and back on every time I wanted to change lanes, which begs the question of why Tesla requires you to turn the autopilot off and back on just to change lanes. The cruise control worked the same as before, and honestly, I can handle lane changes on my own.

Stoplight and stop sign handling was terrible. It ID'd stop signs that weren't there, stopped the car in the middle of a highway, and tries to stop for most green lights unless you remember to tell it not to. It stopped for no reason multiple times during the trip. This in turn caused more safety hazards than if I just disabled it to begin with.

Autopilot is generally a great tool. You can turn it on, pay attention, and not really worry too much about your car doing things you'd rather it not do. FSD adds a whole new level of anxiety and complexity that is in no way a finished product. I can't imagine the FSD Beta being any better. I could understand it if it weren't so expensive, but at $12000/$200 per month, it is wildly overpriced. I've already canceled the subscription, and I doubt I'll be missing anything when it ends except the ability to impress friends by letting the car mope around a parking lot by itself.
View attachment 796011
("Tesla Autopilot Engaged in Model X.jpg" by Ian Maddox is licensed under CC BY 4.0.)

The saddest thing with Tesla AP is that when you change the lane you have to re-enable it. And you hear the dong.

All other manufacturers implement it much more reasonable: if cruise control has lane assist it re-enables itself after lane change soon as it identifies lane markings.

Why tesla made it such a pain in the ass - I have no understanding