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Two NEMA14-30P on the same breaker box

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Guys I need some professional electrical advise. My house has two NEMA 14-30P port but the original owner decides only installed one 30A breaker for both, so one of them does not have any power.

The first photo shows the current 30A breaker box with the two 120V hot wires on each pole. What I am trying to do is to connect the non-connected wires from the another NEMA14-30P to the same breaker like 2nd photo shows.

I am aware the potential fire hazard if using both outlet together, so I have plan to double check the mobile connector is disconnected before using rhe dryer and vice versa.

I have some basic electric backgorund but no where near professional. Have anyone been to a similar situation give?Any suggestion of if this is the correct way towconnect the way?
 

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Solution
Update- After calculating some different approaches as discussed above, I end up hiring an electrician to install a new NEMA14-50 outlet with a 30Amp breaker next to the panel for $300. I am not feeling too comfortable wiring the breaker myself and don't think there is a better solution for the price and convenience. Now except the outlet is not aligned with the panel, which drives me crazy because I got OCD, everything else is great😂
I understand that. It's the part about not having a GFCI on both ends that I was wondering about.
It's about whether there is a shock risk from regular usage. With a mobile charging cord, people might be plugging and unplugging it from an outlet. They will be holding the plug with exposed prongs in their hand. Someone might lose their grip a little, and their finger slips as it's partially plugged in, and touch an electrified prong and....bad news. So for the ones that plug into an outlet, electric code wants GFCI protecting the outlet.

With a hard wired unit, it's all turned off while you are running the wire, bolting it down inside the unit, then you put the cover on, and tighten up the screws, and then turn the breaker on the energize it. There's no way for people's hands to touch those wires closed up inside it, so GFCI is not an issue there, so it doesn't need the GFCI breaker.

What you quoted from was the wall connector manual, which correctly says it doesn't need that.

So, did that HPWC have a GFCI built in? Did it require a GFCI breaker in the breaker panel for that circuit?
I'm not sure what the manual for that short-lived product said, but it wouldn't matter, because it's still dictated by NEC. It says any outlet being installed for the purpose of EV charging has to have it, so it has to have it.
 
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Update(Charging Test Update) - Just got my car delivered and ran a test with it!

Hello fellow, I really appreciate all the input as we all learned more than yesterday and I like it. So I just charged the car for around 1 hour and I'm gonna put all the info I collected below, please note these temperatures are not constant and I had picked the higher one to record instead of a lower value:

Charge Amps limit at the console: 32A
Charge Current Display at the console: 32A - (The 30A breaker did not trip during the charging period)
Breaker Hot Pole 1 temperature at 40mins into charging: 68C (155F)
Breaker Hot Pole 2 temperature at 50mins into charging: 53C (155F)
Breaker Hot Pole 1's wire temperature at 45 mins into charging: 38.7C (101.66F)
14-50p surface temperature 45 mins into charging: 38C (100F)
mobile charger controller surface 40mins into charging : 43C (109F)
mobile charger header surface temperature 40mins into charging: 34C (93.2F)

For comparison, I ran the dryer (Kenmore 60222 6.5cu.ft) for 15 mins and collect the temperature as well. The indoor temperature is around 24.5C (76.1F) with AC turned on but the garage shouldn't be too different so I don't think it makes any difference. Unfortunately, I can't measure the exact current the dryer drew.

Breaker Hot Pole temperature at 10 mins into running: 31.9C (89.42F)
Breaker Hot Pole temperature at 15 mins into running: 32.3C (90.14F)
14-30P surface temperature at 13mins into running: 24.8C (76.64F)

Edit: These temperatures are certainly concerning. I have no idea why the 30A breaker did not trip if my constant current is 32Amps, but my plan is to call the electrician company to change these 30Amp wires and breaker to the 50Amps rated ones for safety. I will run the temperature charging test again and post the result here.
 
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Update(Charging Test Update) - Just got my car delivered and ran a test with it!

Hello fellow, I really appreciate all the input as we all learned more than yesterday and I like it. So I just charged the car for around 1 hour and I'm gonna put all the info I collected below, please note these temperatures are not constant and I had picked the higher one to record instead of a lower value:

Charge Amps limit at the console: 32A
Charge Current Display at the console: 32A - (The 30A breaker did not trip during the charging period)
Breaker Hot Pole 1 temperature at 40mins into charging: 68C (155F)
Breaker Hot Pole 2 temperature at 50mins into charging: 53C (155F)
Breaker Hot Pole 1's wire temperature at 45 mins into charging: 38.7C (101.66F)
14-50p surface temperature 45 mins into charging: 38C (100F)
mobile charger controller surface 40mins into charging : 43C (109F)
mobile charger header surface temperature 40mins into charging: 34C (93.2F)

For comparison, I ran the dryer (Kenmore 60222 6.5cu.ft) for 15 mins and collect the temperature as well. The indoor temperature is around 24.5C (76.1F) with AC turned on but the garage shouldn't be too different so I don't think it makes any difference. Unfortunately, I can't measure the exact current the dryer drew.

Breaker Hot Pole temperature at 10 mins into running: 31.9C (89.42F)
Breaker Hot Pole temperature at 15 mins into running: 32.3C (90.14F)
14-30P surface temperature at 13mins into running: 24.8C (76.64F)

Edit: These temperatures are certainly concerning. I have no idea why the 30A breaker did not trip if my constant current is 32Amps, but my plan is to call the electrician company to change these 30Amp wires and breaker to the 50Amps rated ones for safety. I will run the temperature charging test again and post the result here.
It didn't trip because breakers aren't digital devices. They can allow overcurrent for quite a while. They typically only trip immediately with a short.

In the meantime, you can charge your car at 24A. Just dial it down in the car's screen before a charge session. It'll remember that 24A setting for your location.

Please don't stress test such a setup. That overcurrent heat cycle may cause other things to happen like weakening the breaker, receptacle, wires, or mechanical connections.
 
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Thanks, but why the warning in the documentation? I would think that if it just wasn't needed, it would be more of a note than a warning.

It's just my curiosity kicking in, not really a big deal. :)
I would assume that the way the Wall Connector tests for ground faults can potentially cause an issue with the GFCI breaker.
If that’s the case, it’s the Wall Connector’s issue and not the breaker (it’s just doing its job).
 
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Update(Charging Test Update) - Just got my car delivered and ran a test with it!

Hello fellow, I really appreciate all the input as we all learned more than yesterday and I like it. So I just charged the car for around 1 hour and I'm gonna put all the info I collected below, please note these temperatures are not constant and I had picked the higher one to record instead of a lower value:

Charge Amps limit at the console: 32A
Charge Current Display at the console: 32A - (The 30A breaker did not trip during the charging period)
Breaker Hot Pole 1 temperature at 40mins into charging: 68C (155F)
Breaker Hot Pole 2 temperature at 50mins into charging: 53C (155F)
Breaker Hot Pole 1's wire temperature at 45 mins into charging: 38.7C (101.66F)
14-50p surface temperature 45 mins into charging: 38C (100F)
mobile charger controller surface 40mins into charging : 43C (109F)
mobile charger header surface temperature 40mins into charging: 34C (93.2F)

For comparison, I ran the dryer (Kenmore 60222 6.5cu.ft) for 15 mins and collect the temperature as well. The indoor temperature is around 24.5C (76.1F) with AC turned on but the garage shouldn't be too different so I don't think it makes any difference. Unfortunately, I can't measure the exact current the dryer drew.

Breaker Hot Pole temperature at 10 mins into running: 31.9C (89.42F)
Breaker Hot Pole temperature at 15 mins into running: 32.3C (90.14F)
14-30P surface temperature at 13mins into running: 24.8C (76.64F)

Edit: These temperatures are certainly concerning. I have no idea why the 30A breaker did not trip if my constant current is 32Amps, but my plan is to call the electrician company to change these 30Amp wires and breaker to the 50Amps rated ones for safety. I will run the temperature charging test again and post the result here.
Are you trying to burn down your house? Code is code. Measuring temperatures to understand just how bad your code violation is a bit out there.
 
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Are you trying to burn down your house? Code is code. Measuring temperatures to understand just how bad your code violation is a bit out theere.
Bro, you really need to look into the NEC before starting an argument with the others. I violated no NEC during this test and I would like to learn more if you can find me proof.

1. I have learned the 80% rule is appied only for constant amps draw for 3 hours or more.
2.The requirement of GFCI breaker for EV charge is actually not true, this regulation is varied at differnt jurisdiction.
3. There is no restrictions regarding using a 14-50 with a 30amps breaker.
4. There is no specific temperature rate for breaker but generally it shouldnt go beyond 40C above the room temperature (The temperature testing is close to that so this is the result why know I need to change to a 50 rated ones)

Experiment is needed to learn new things. I am confident enough to cpnduct these testing becaude I am a engineer with sufficient eletricity background. For disclosure, if anyone know nothing about electricity should never mess with the breaker panel. But like what you saw here, some eletricians are gonna do things like this to cut expense and if you dont test out yourself you will endup thinking your eletrician done everthing the NEC asked. Like I said, if you can find proof that oppose the above statement , I am alwayd happy to learn.
 
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Experiment is needed to learn new things. I am confident enough to cpnduct these testing becaude I am a engineer with sufficient eletricity background.
I appreciate the curiosity and that you want to experiment and learn about it.

But I'm not going to leave factually incorrect statements on here, so there are just some corrections needed.

Bro, you really need to look into the NEC before starting an argument with the others. I violated no NEC during this test and I would like to learn more if you can find me proof.
OK, I'll go through them.
1. I have learned the 80% rule is appied only for constant amps draw for 3 hours or more.
It used to be defined that way. NEC article 625 made it more clear that electric vehicle charging is always to be considered as continuous load--no exception. That's in the 2017 edition. Most of 625 was pretty new in the 2017 update.


2.The requirement of GFCI breaker for EV charge is actually not true, this regulation is varied at differnt jurisdiction.
It varies by jurisdiction only as far as which states have adopted which year editions of the National Electric Code. This requirement was put in the 2017 edition, and most states are on at least that or newer. Your location says Ohio, which is on the 2017 edition, so yes, this does apply in Ohio.

Correct on #3. I don't know about #4.
 
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I appreciate the curiosity and that you want to experiment and learn about it.

But I'm not going to leave factually incorrect statements on here, so there are just some corrections needed.


OK, I'll go through them.

It used to be defined that way. NEC article 625 made it more clear that electric vehicle charging is always to be considered as continuous load--no exception. That's in the 2017 edition. Most of 625 was pretty new in the 2017 update.



It varies by jurisdiction only as far as which states have adopted which year editions of the National Electric Code. This requirement was put in the 2017 edition, and most states are on at least that or newer. Your location says Ohio, which is on the 2017 edition, so yes, this does apply in Ohio.

Correct on #3. I don't know about #4.
To restate the above, the breaker must be sized to at least 125% of the continuous load. (NEC 210.20). If one knows the continuous load will or can be 32A, then the breaker must be at least 40A. The breaker in question here is 30A.

NEC 210.22 says "An individual branch circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for which it is rated, but in no case shall the load exceed the branch-circuit ampere rating.". The 30A circuit rating is being deliberately exceeded in "testing".
 
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I was told by two electricians that since the mobile charger has an internal GFCI, if you install another GFCI breaker, they will work against each other in some scenarios.
I have installed a GFCI breaker and it works perfectly fine with my Mobile Connector, with no nuisance trips (knock on wood). As others mentioned, they protect different things. The GFCI breaker protects against shocks from the outlet, while the GFCI in the Mobile Connector protects against shocks from the interface to your car inlet. It's not required for a Wall Connector because that's hardwired with no outlet.

A GFCI breaker is required by code in almost all states now for outlets for EVSEs. Electricians probably don't like them because it's more expensive and less available, plus it's more likely to have nuisance trips if the wiring or ground is iffy.
 
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NEC 210.22 says "An individual branch circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for which it is rated, but in no case shall the load exceed the branch-circuit ampere rating.". The 30A circuit rating is being deliberately exceeded in "testing".
That's the point of the testing. The goal is not to violate the NEC but to see if the 30 amps breaker actually does the job (I shall have clarified that I don't expect the mobile charger to do 32 Amps constant amp draw and I was expecting the 30 breaker would be tripped at that point). The mobile charger says it draws 32A, while the electrician who claimed to have 20 years of experience said that the installed 30 Amps works. Because of these data, I was able to ask the electrician company to make things right, ppl in the future can make notes if their electricians are cutting corners. Everybody is safe. I was just upset when ppl made a "Burn your home down" statement with absolutely no rationale.
 
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That's the point of the testing. The goal is not to violate the NEC but to see if the 30 amps breaker actually does the job (I shall have clarified that I don't expect the mobile charger to do 32 Amps constant amp draw and I was expecting the 30 breaker would be tripped at that point). The mobile charger says it draws 32A, while the electrician who claimed to have 20 years of experience said that the installed 30 Amps works. Because of these data, I was able to ask the electrician company to make things right, ppl in the future can make notes if their electricians are cutting corners. Everybody is safe. I was just upset when ppl made a "Burn your home down" statement with absolutely no rationale.
I can appreciate the experience of talking to an electrician who doesn't know what the hell he is doing and sympathize with you being gaslighted by one.

I'm confused as to why you think violating code is not a rationale for saying you might burn your house down? I suppose I could have worded that differently, but it is an accurate opinion as far as I can tell, and supported by the code sections I quoted to you. I see nothing in the code allowing you to "test" the breaker by deliberately overloading the branch circuit, which is simply in my opinion never to be done ... and I'd go a bit further and say that's not an opinion, it's the rules. That luxury is probably reserved for labs.
 
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I'm confused as to why you think violating code is not a rationale for saying you might burn your house down?
Clearly, not everyone could understand the whole point of the testing. I won't try to argue more which does nothing constructive regarding to the original post. But I would kindly ask you to read the temperature of the hot wire which comes nowhere close to melting down (hello rationale). Nevertheless, we are all trying to be safe at the end of the day and if we both agree on this then we are on the same boat.
 
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Clearly, not everyone could understand the whole point of the testing. I won't try to argue more which does nothing constructive regarding to the original post. But I would kindly ask you to read the temperature of the hot wire which comes nowhere close to melting down (hello rationale). Nevertheless, we are all trying to be safe at the end of the day and if we both agree on this then we are on the same boat.
Safety is my concern, and if you are amenable to that we are all good.

For context, my approach to this would simply have been the following.

1. Recognize the disparity between the code and the installation and call it a day.
2. If I was not aware of the code issues or what they meant until a couple of days ago, I would not then be comfortable "testing" an illegal installation and assuming I have the expertise to "color outside the lines" or understand the implications of conducting that testing.
3. Remembering that safety is always a multi layered approach and that removing layers of safety by relying on other layers to work as they should is exactly how accidents occur.
 
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Clearly, not everyone could understand the whole point of the testing. I won't try to argue more which does nothing constructive regarding to the original post. But I would kindly ask you to read the temperature of the hot wire which comes nowhere close to melting down (hello rationale). Nevertheless, we are all trying to be safe at the end of the day and if we both agree on this then we are on the same boat.
All right. Let's make this clear: I am a EE. I've got my cutesy little Order of the Engineer ring on my right pinky, where it's been since I was an undergraduate. One of the oaths I took was To Not Endanger the Public.

On average, I suppose, I've waved that pinky finger at supervisors and such on average two or three times a decade. I work with a good crowd: One wave, in general, is all it takes. And, in all those times, it was about Things Catching Afire. Which, very definitely, endangers the public if it occurs.

On top of all this, one of my lines of work has been to take dead, broken, and burned (I am not kidding here) things returned from the field, figure out what happened, and fix whatever it was to Never Happen Again.

On the one hand, I am not a true-blue AC city power engineer, the kind with the yellow hats and all. On the other, I mess with central office 48V power which, given the way things work, can get up into the thousands of amperes. (Although, I usually don't get that high. Tens of amps with an occasional diversion to 100A is more my shtick.

But this puts what I work on, and what Teslas do on power, in the same rough range. So.. I have a feel for this kind of thing. And, yeah, I do know how breakers are put together. And how fusing works. I got my I^2-t curves under full control.

You and your, "Testing", I'm afraid, leaves something to be desired. First off, there's manufacturing variations on breakers. The trip current for these things is statistical and not exact. Which means that what works on one breaker, even several times, isn't going to work across a whole population of breakers. Unless you've been reading some serious data sheets, I question whether your, "experiments" have any real validity.

Second: While there are certain types of breakers that don't have the wear-out mechanisms that most commercial breakers do (magnetic trip ones, for example), you're not going to find them at Home Depot or your typical electrical supply store. The commercial ones work by heating up an element. When that element gets hot, it expands, gets bigger, and pushes against some kind of trip lever. It.. flexes.

Running any breaker right at its limit wrecks its reliability equation. The FIT rate is going to soar, and the probability of that breaker failing gets to be high.

And then one has to ask about failure modes. This is where how a breaker fails likely varies on a manufacturer-by-manufacturer basis. Failing open is one thing. But breakers do fail closed, and That Is Dangerous.

There are good, solid reasons that don't take much thought from an engineer, any engineer, why the NEC calls for a max steady load of 80% of the circuit rating. It's to keep that breaker safe. For that matter: Screw down terminals are high-resistance (relatively) points that also expand and contract. with high current. All of this says: Stay away from 100% usage!

You're playing, or think you're playing, Penny-Wise. But it's not just, "Pound foolish". Breakers are safety equipment, as in people's actual safety against physical harm. You are playing, "dicing with death". That typically does not end well.

Or you're here to play troll. Which is it?
 
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You're playing, or think you're playing, Penny-Wise. But it's not just, "Pound foolish". Breakers are safety equipment, as in people's actual safety against physical harm. You are playing, "dicing with death". That typically does not end well.

Or you're here to play troll. Which is it?
The whole point of this post is about how to follow the NEC to have a proper long-term solution. Otherwise, I won't even hire an electrician in the first place and just tap the two 14-30P together. So do you think I am playing? Or, Are you trolling:) -Just kidding
 
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