[UK] 2022.24

[BillN]

How much of your complaint would be resolved if you had EAP or FSD and AP could stay engaged during a lane change? (Or is that one of the things that the regulations disallow over there?)



I don't know where you get that idea from. I change lanes all the time.

Difficult to know personally, as I’m not about to spend £3,400 on EAP to find out!

If it did work as a solution to the unnecessary problem, then it’d only work on the occasions when there’s enough time and space to allow EAP to make the change, which based on what I’ve seen of it’s use over here, is not very often.

(Based on various YouTube channels I watch where people are seen driving on freeways and there doesn’t seem to be much inclination at all from most of them to keep right - regardless of whatever rules may actually apply)

 

[Durzel]

Vision performance overtook (current low-res) radar quite a while ago. Lots of videos from this time last year showing it operating well in fog etc. Some people don't like change though.

I don't know why people insist on categorising anyone who might have misgivings about this change as being luddites or dangerous drivers (fog).

As far as I can tell - vision only AP requires auto main beam and auto wipers to be enabled. The former can be switched off, but has to be switched off every time you enable AP (have fun doing that on the motorway whenever you change lane, if you don't have EAP), and the latter can't be turned off at all. Added to which you can't set a follow distance of 1 and it goes 5mph less than the current AP maximum (granted this one is a gripe in the UK because both are faster than the national speed limit).

Sniggering at people complaining about this and suggesting they are stuck in the past or want to drive too fast in the fog etc doesn't help anyone.

For the absence of all doubt - if auto main beam and auto wipers worked like every other car I've driven in the last 10 years, I'd have no issues wth this update at all - even with the follow distance and max AP speed changes. As neither of those systems do work properly, I have an issue with it, legitimately I feel.

 

[init6]

Why is the only Level 3 autonomous vehicle Lidar based then (Merc S/EQS)?
What the camera sees is subject to interpretation (numerous occurences of crashes in white vans, low sun flares, etc).
I have much more trust in a LiDAR. Either there is an obstacle or there isn’t.

We don't have lidar on Teslas, just a a low-res radar that is prone to using track and failing to identify objects.

Removing radar entirely instead of upgrading it was a big mistake imho and is at least failing to provide users a second layer of safety when it comes to detecting imminent crashes through sensor fusion.

Tesla can't upgrade the current sensor. It's a Bosch sensor hence why they are developing there own hi-res radar. If you have two sensors and they disagree which one do you believe?

Why do you think even high-end smartphones are bothering to add this costly extra component if depth-of-field/AR could be easily achieved through vision-only?

Maybe they don't have access to the AI that Tesla has.

 

[MP3Mike]

If it did work as a solution to the unnecessary problem, then it’d only work on the occasions when there’s enough time and space to allow EAP to make the change, which based on what I’ve seen of it’s use over here, is not very often.

I did forget that the UNECE rules cripple the lane change functionality over there. (It works fine for me here.)

 

[init6]

I don't think anyone was advocating for radar instead of vision. just whether going from two independent sources of data to one is progress. I guess we will see.......

People seem to be getting upset that their radar is not being used. Pretty sure someone in this thread is going to ask Tesla to rewrite their code just for them so they can keep using radar.

That's the bit people have a problem with. 2 is always better than 1. But what if 1 sensor technology has surpassed the other and the second one is just adding noise?

 

[Durzel]

I did forget that the UNECE rules cripple the lane change functionality over there. (It works fine for me here.)

You'd probably be shocked at how degraded autonomous features are over here to be honest.

Teslas are worse in some respects than other cars that you wouldn't expect to be better, because of choices they've made that work perfectly fine in the US market, for example Kias, Hyundais, etc can be summoned from a good distance from the car, because of using a dead mans switch on a keyfob, but Teslas don't have keyfobs as standard, etc.

 

[BillN]

I did forget that the UNECE rules cripple the lane change functionality over there. (It works fine for me here.)

Even if it worked better here, it’s still £3,400!

 

[BillN]

You'd probably be shocked at how degraded autonomous features are over here to be honest.

There are some people, possibly including Musk, who I suspect have never personally experienced what is already possible in Europe in some very affordable cars from other manufacturers, and at the same time have, I suspect, never personally experienced how Teslas behave in Europe.

Someone in Tesla needs to start appreciating this pretty soon I think.

 

[browellm]

High beams and fog. Name a more iconic duo.

 

[BillN]

 

[BillN]

Via

https://twitter.com/x/status/1565710891479453698

 

[Durzel]

View attachment 848227View attachment 848228

(didn't want to actually "disagree" your post)

 

[CWT3LR]

There are some people, possibly including Musk, who I suspect have never personally experienced what is already possible in Europe in some very affordable cars from other manufacturers, and at the same time have, I suspect, never personally experienced how Teslas behave in Europe.

Someone in Tesla needs to start appreciating this pretty soon I think.

Now that I have experienced "the most high tech car on the world market", I can confidently say that Tesla has about 2 years to massively improve its cars' technical capabilities for European needs or the Koreans and Germans will eat them for lunch. Heck, even the demo drive I saw of a Renault Megane e-Tech looked seriously impressive compared to a Tesla.

Either that, or the near 30% profit margin will have to seriously take a hit to reduce the price to that of competitors.

 

[prabhu]

Yup. Just lol if anyone thinks they’re suddenly going to fix auto high beams like it’s a bug with the latest update.

It’s been trash for as long as I’ve owned the car, 2.5 years now. I’ve seen no discernible improvement in that time.

A bug is a bug irrespective of duration unless it is a design flaw. I am hopeful that Tesla could fix it with future software updates since this is the first release that disables radar for many.

 

[browellm]

It's not a bug though, is it? It's a conscious software behaviour decision.

They might change their mind on it, but it's not a bug.

 

[BillN]

Someone in Tesla needs to start appreciating this pretty soon I think.

To expand - the top trim MG4 for example is £32k and comes with auto everything and it will all actually work pretty well. Sure, lane following may not be as solid as AP can be, but overall, it will almost certainly be a much more finished and advanced car in terms of the driver assistance stuff.

360 parking cam and V2L too.

Throw in Supercharger access with a port on the correct side and…..

 

[prabhu]

It works fine with me!!! Night and day drive, rain and dry yesterday.
I think some people might be reacting to the really bright lights of the high beam and are aggravated of it turning on and off. Once you get used to it it is fine and just enjoy the drive. Also cars coming towards me don’t seem to be bothered, highway and normal roads.

Yes and No. Other people won't bother even if your car doesn't have any headlights until something bad happens. Right now the car is defaulting to safety first to reduce camera related misses making it inconvenient foe other users.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

If the reason for dropping the "low resolution radar" is because its "low resolution" then I can understand that, but that doesn't mean "no radar" is better than "radar", only "no radar" is better than "low resolution radar".

Its been said countless numbers of times, Tesla defined a technology stack back in 2016, everything about it has been updated, the software stack numerous times, the processors 3 times, word on the street is they're working on iteration 4, and even some of the cameras have been changed (the repeater cameras twice and I think even the reversing camera although that may have predated the Tesla AP hardware). It's not beyond credible belief that the rest of the hardware like the radar wasn't really up to it. But as Tesla decided to do what they did, they have made a rod for their own back and "a better radar" isn't an option given the retro fit costs. Time will tell, but pixel peaking the existing cameras suggests they're on the limit already of whats needed.

If you were a mobleye or waymo you'd be upgrading the cameras and radar if the signal wasn;t good enough until you got a feed that was. Why make work for yourself trying to deal with poor quality sensor input when you sell the solution for $10k?

 

[BillN]

From the Dutch thread:

 

[prabhu]

You are not supposed to use AP in town or narrow country roads anyway. The AHB probably hasn’t been tested for these situations.

I try to use auto-steer on every road with a dedicated button and am completely aware of its capabilities and limitations on the various roads I have used. There is definite improvement during the daytime to the point one could just use auto-steer without worrying too much.