Wiki UK and Ireland Supercharger Site News

[m3gt2]

And maybe hence the decline of maintaining their chargers at these spots (LFE)? Although they still need these as other manufactures can not use the Tesla SuC's

Side note - there is a new Ecotricity 50kw unit on the A50 west bound just before the junction A6 to derby that was installed early December (And typical Ecotricity, this is not working either since the end of December!)

TBH I can still see other manufacturers coming around to Tesla for a deal to use Superchargers once they realise the task ahead of them!

 

[mrkisskiss]

I do wonder about capacity moving forward. When I first got my S the idea that you might get to a supercharger and it would be full was as ludicrous as... well... ludicrous mode. Now it's proving to be a regular occurrence, especially at busy times of year (Christmas etc)

Long journey home from north to south today.
Keele supercharger first. All occupied. Wait.
Get space (1 of 4), very slow charging.

Keele North is one of the slowest superchargers ever built -- I think it's just limited by its capacity from the grid. If you can make it the extra miles to Warwick, then do - much faster (and nicer!)...

I wonder which bright spark with lots of venture capital to burn will take the plunge and build a couple of EV-first service stations along popular routes. Moaning aside, we're pretty well served as Tesla drivers. However, for other EV drivers it's absolute carnage figuring out how to get places. If I had capital to burn (I don't), I'd probably get in there early and start a kind of EV members club. Build a few high end members-only stops along popular routes: a windmill, batteries, and lots and lots of fast chargers, a high-end diner/restaurant; valet service; plush lounge with great coffee; fast WiFi; great facilities; and, of course, a small shop where you can buy ridiculously overpriced things. £800p/a membership. Access via registered car/ANPR or NFC membership card/app. Send your cheques straight to me please.

 

[Newbie2EV]

Does anyone know anything regarding the Supecharger station being built in Worcester? I haven't seen anything about its location in the city or if it is V2 or V3 in terms of rollout. Hopwood is not far from me, but this would be on my doorstep and ideal for the days when I have to head out with a quick boost!

 

[cezdoc]

Does anyone know anything regarding the Supecharger station being built in Worcester? I haven't seen anything about its location in the city or if it is V2 or V3 in terms of rollout. Hopwood is not far from me, but this would be on my doorstep and ideal for the days when I have to head out with a quick boost!

I don't have any specific information but here's a bit of speculation based on the Tesla map pin location history: initially there was a "coming soon" pin at the exact location of Gloucester Services Northbound on the M5 and since this is joint owned by the same group that owns Tebay it looked like Tesla hoped they could host another Supercharger there. However in May 2018 the pin disappeared while at the same time the one at Worcester appeared (along with a bunch of others all over the UK). Worcester looks like a notional location (Tesla are very unlikely to want to have a supercharger in a city centre), and my take on this is that Gloucester Services is unsuitable for some reason but Tesla still aspire to find a site in that general area.

 

[Newbie2EV]

I don't have any specific information but here's a bit of speculation based on the Tesla map pin location history: initially there was a "coming soon" pin at the exact location of Gloucester Services Northbound on the M5 and since this is joint owned by the same group that owns Tebay it looked like Tesla hoped they could host another Supercharger there. However in May 2018 the pin disappeared while at the same time the one at Worcester appeared (along with a bunch of others all over the UK). Worcester looks like a notional location (Tesla are very unlikely to want to have a supercharger in a city centre), and my take on this is that Gloucester Services is unsuitable for some reason but Tesla still aspire to find a site in that general area.

That's great, thank you! Fingers crossed. More sites along the M5 southbound towards Devon and Cornwall won't go amiss if they're now looking towards expanding outwards of the current network. It seems the South West, North and Scotland are the main areas lacking right now on the mainland.

 

[CMc1]

Ref slow chargers, TezLab have just released their latest update, which tells you if the speed your receiving is in-line with what is expected based on previous charges. More that get involved the better the data will be (from a UK perspective).

 

[KennethS]

You may be disappointed. Retrospective permission was declined and so was the appeal

19/0540/RSP | Retrospective: Creation of new parking area with the provision of 16 electric car charging spaces with associated works | Hunton Park Essex Lane Abbots Langley WD4 8PN

That is a pity. I was not even aware of this potential new SC location, but it would be quite close for me. One of the reasons cited in the council decision, albeit one of many, is the site would service only “Teslar” cars....

 

[NorfolkMustard]

TBH I can still see other manufacturers coming around to Tesla for a deal to use Superchargers once they realise the task ahead of them!

I don't think manufacturers need to worry. Tesla did it because there wasn't anything else available, but there are enough private charging companies now to not need manufacturer owned networks - I'd rather that than more brand-locked charging networks.

 

[Jason71]

I don't think manufacturers need to worry. Tesla did it because there wasn't anything else available, but there are enough private charging companies now to not need manufacturer owned networks - I'd rather that than more brand-locked charging networks.

Agree. The ship has sailed on any new one make charger networks . It's more a question of how much longer Tesla will be able/willing/allowed to hold onto theirs.

 

[Cogarch]

Agree. The ship has sailed on any new one make charger networks . It's more a question of how much longer Tesla will be able/willing/allowed to hold onto theirs.

There are still huge advantages for a vertically-integrated manufacturer like Tesla, as Apple has demonstrated.

 

[mo.dilwar]

Agree. The ship has sailed on any new one make charger networks . It's more a question of how much longer Tesla will be able/willing/allowed to hold onto theirs.

WRT Tesla being able/willing to keep hold of their Supercharger network, I think it's pretty obvious that they have no plans to do otherwise, now that the majority of their car sales going forward being sold only with pay as you charge Supercharger access.

If you're suggesting they will be forced to give up exclusivity of their Supercharger network by the government, I personally have not seen any articles ever suggesting this.

 

[Cogarch]

Think about it. What was the main thing that tipped it for you in choosing a Tesla? For me whatever its other merits it was the dropdead simplicity and availability of the Supercharger network, compared with the endless hassle and anxiety of relying on disparate other networks I (having been emotionally scarred by having had to rely on Ecotriocty..). Tesla would be mad to give it up.

 

[Lickrob]

If you're suggesting they will be forced to give up exclusivity of their Supercharger network by the government, I personally have not seen any articles ever suggesting this.

I doubt the government will get involved in that sense. But they want all new cars to be electric by 2032 so they might put in regulations like "all motorway service stations must have EV charging availability by 2032". Then a private network like supercharger probably wouldn't count.
They already have a £4.5 Million fund for Local Authorities to cover charging installation costs and Tesla saw none of that. (West Yorkshire has 88 50kWh charge point network that is free until October 2021 operated by engie)

 

[Jason71]

WRT Tesla being able/willing to keep hold of their Supercharger network, I think it's pretty obvious that they have no plans to do otherwise, now that the majority of their car sales going forward being sold only with pay as you charge Supercharger access.

If you're suggesting they will be forced to give up exclusivity of their Supercharger network by the government, I personally have not seen any articles ever suggesting this.

That is one of the possible things I am suggesting. I have not seen any articles on it either but the EU is not keen on proprietary and anti competitive, just ask Apple, microsoft and Google. Given the prevalence of Teslas at the moment and lack of other EV's the SC network is helping to drive EV adoption.
But
As soon as the number of other types of lower cost EVs goes up, Tesla makes up a lower proportion of the whole, and SC's are viewed as hogging the good locations, preventing 3rd party chargers being installed and therefore limiting adoption that could change very quickly. and it's not just about space it's about available power supply at a location.
Not saying it will happen but don't assume it's not a possibility
p.s. yes I know we will not be in the EU much longer

 

[simonmj66]

That is one of the possible things I am suggesting. I have not seen any articles on it either but the EU is not keen on proprietary and anti competitive, just ask Apple, microsoft and Google. Given the prevalence of Teslas at the moment and lack of other EV's the SC network is helping to drive EV adoption.
But
As soon as the number of other types of lower cost EVs goes up, Tesla makes up a lower proportion of the whole, and SC's are viewed as hogging the good locations, preventing 3rd party chargers being installed and therefore limiting adoption that could change very quickly. and it's not just about space it's about available power supply at a location.
Not saying it will happen but don't assume it's not a possibility
p.s. yes I know we will not be in the EU much longer

I take a slightly different view.

When I bought my Model S in Nov 17 one of the sell points was SC's. This is still a major sell point and sites keep getting created (albeit not in Elon time). Those rights to draw electricity, lay and maintain cables etc are subject to private legal arrangements between Tesla and adjoining landowners. Unless there is some form of Stalin-like appropriation by Govt how can the EU or parliament legislate to divvy up those sites with existing private rights. They may be able to affect new sites but the existing appear safe unless Tesla and the landowners decide otherwise.

 

[mo.dilwar]

View attachment 500784

I take a slightly different view.

When I bought my Model S in Nov 17 one of the sell points was SC's. This is still a major sell point and sites keep getting created (albeit not in Elon time). Those rights to draw electricity, lay and maintain cables etc are subject to private legal arrangements between Tesla and adjoining landowners. Unless there is some form of Stalin-like appropriation by Govt how can the EU or parliament legislate to divvy up those sites with existing private rights. They may be able to affect new sites but the existing appear safe unless Tesla and the landowners decide otherwise.

It would be like the government forcing fast food chains to cater for all dietary requirements. Sure they have to be very considerate to allergies but no bureaucrat can force KFC to serve beef or McDonalds to serve anything that resembles actual beef.

 

[arg]

Don't be so sure about the risk of Government action.

The EU DIRECTIVE 2014/94/EU contains the following requirement:

9. All recharging points accessible to the public shall also provide for the possibility for electric vehicle users to recharge on an ad hoc basis without entering into a contract with the electricity supplier or operator concerned.

That could be interpreted to require Tesla to accept other manufacturers' vehicles.

Fortunately, the UK regulations implementing the directive keep that requirement but have a definition of "accessible to the public" that allows Tesla to carry on operating superchargers:

(2) A recharging or refuelling point is accessible to the public if it is—
(a)intended for use by members of the general public (including those situated in public car parks, whether or not those car parks are available only to consumers of specific goods or services); and
(b)not intended for—
(i)exclusive use in respect of a vehicle produced by a specific manufacturer;
(ii)use by persons engaged in specific occupations;
(iii)use by persons whilst at their place of employment (including visitors); or
(iv)exclusive use by occupiers of, or visitors to, residential premises.

This wording was not in the original directive, and other EU countries may have implemented the directive differently. At one point it was looking problematic for Tesla in Germany; I'm not sure how that got resolved.

However, Tesla are now in a reasonably good situation for the long term in Europe - with the switch to CCS connectors on the superchargers, and the forthcoming updates to the CCS spec that will allow the car to identify itself to the chargepoint and give a supercharger-like experience for billing, they have most of the pieces to allow non-Tesla cars to charge (at a punitive price) if forced to by law. Not sure what (if anything) they would do about the short cables on superchargers. And if third-party charging operators do get their act together such that superchargers are no longer so special, Tesla still have advantages in their equipment (SC v3 seems significantly superior to the kit that Ionity are installing), and a head start in ambition and branding (Ionity still messing around with 4- and 6-stall sites, while Tesla haven't installed smaller than 8 in a long while and are planning more like 32-stall for future sites).

 

[mo.dilwar]

Don't be so sure about the risk of Government action.

The EU DIRECTIVE 2014/94/EU contains the following requirement:

9. All recharging points accessible to the public shall also provide for the possibility for electric vehicle users to recharge on an ad hoc basis without entering into a contract with the electricity supplier or operator concerned.

That could be interpreted to require Tesla to accept other manufacturers' vehicles.

Fortunately, the UK regulations implementing the directive keep that requirement but have a definition of "accessible to the public" that allows Tesla to carry on operating superchargers:

(2) A recharging or refuelling point is accessible to the public if it is—
(a)intended for use by members of the general public (including those situated in public car parks, whether or not those car parks are available only to consumers of specific goods or services); and
(b)not intended for—
(i)exclusive use in respect of a vehicle produced by a specific manufacturer;
(ii)use by persons engaged in specific occupations;
(iii)use by persons whilst at their place of employment (including visitors); or
(iv)exclusive use by occupiers of, or visitors to, residential premises.

This wording was not in the original directive, and other EU countries may have implemented the directive differently. At one point it was looking problematic for Tesla in Germany; I'm not sure how that got resolved.

However, Tesla are now in a reasonably good situation for the long term in Europe - with the switch to CCS connectors on the superchargers, and the forthcoming updates to the CCS spec that will allow the car to identify itself to the chargepoint and give a supercharger-like experience for billing, they have most of the pieces to allow non-Tesla cars to charge (at a punitive price) if forced to by law. Not sure what (if anything) they would do about the short cables on superchargers. And if third-party charging operators do get their act together such that superchargers are no longer so special, Tesla still have advantages in their equipment (SC v3 seems significantly superior to the kit that Ionity are installing), and a head start in ambition and branding (Ionity still messing around with 4- and 6-stall sites, while Tesla haven't installed smaller than 8 in a long while and are planning more like 32-stall for future sites).

That’s a really good point about the cable length at Tesla SC stalls.

Unless the EV has its charging port on the rear left side or front right side, there’s no hope in hell for these cables to reach.

 

[Jason71]

It would be like the government forcing fast food chains to cater for all dietary requirements. Sure they have to be very considerate to allergies but no bureaucrat can force KFC to serve beef or McDonalds to serve anything that resembles actual beef.

Actually they probably could do the latter but I would say it would be more like:
Forcing Microsoft to include competitors browsers on the Windows platform
or
Forcing Google stop arrangements to pre-install only its apps on Android phones
or
Forcing Apple iPhones to charge using USB type C

EU already did the first 2 and watch this space for number 3

 

[simonmj66]

Actually they probably could do the latter but I would say it would be more like:
Forcing Microsoft to include competitors browsers on the Windows platform
or
Forcing Google stop arrangements to pre-install only its apps on Android phones
or
Forcing Apple iPhones to charge using USB type C

EU already did the first 2 and watch this space for number 3

The point i was making is that this is difficult to enforce retrospectively.