UK Electricity Tariffs for EVs

[ThrustSSC]

Do EDF effectively balance the cost of their off peak rates by charging more for gas? If not I cannot see how this half price off peak and weekend deal can be beaten.

When I looked at EDF the issue was the rates were both still high relative to the competition - in my case I'm on Economy 7 with Bulb, who have been excellent.

The challenge for me is that at 7.4kW the car needs more than 4 hours to charge up each night. So E7 beats the 4-very-cheap-hours approach. EDF would be good, possibly, if I needed more than 50kWh a night - but that's going to be rare.

One thing I will say: when I originally got my subsidised chargepoint 4 years ago the trade-off was a meter on it to report back my usage pattern, in order to inform Government policy on EVs. That meter is a Godsend on working out consumption patterns and then deciding on the supplier+tariff to go for.

If there was one thing I'd change it's the timing of my E7. It's 2347-0647GMT. It doesn't move with the clocks, so presently it's 0047-0747. I often leave home before 0600hrs - not a problem with the current Outlander PHEV, but likely to give me a slight cost hit (particularly in summer) with the M3.

 

[Mark_T]

Do EDF effectively balance the cost of their off peak rates by charging more for gas? If not I cannot see how this half price off peak and weekend deal can be beaten.

No, they are not the cheapest place for gas, but it isn't out of line with Bulb/Octopus etc.

The trick is to look at your particular usage of power and how it is split across the day.

If you have a low constant load (fridge, freezer, fish tanks, water heating etc.), but do use power throughout the day with people working from home for example, but can easily move heavy usage into a narrow time window at night (delayed use of EV charging, dishwasher, washing machine, dryer etc.) then Octopus may be better as their rate for 4 hours at night is much lower and their peak rate is also lower than EDF.. If you tend to be out of the house most weekends that also shifts the balance towards Octopus.

... but you do have to be using a considerable portion of your power in those 4 hours at night and during working hours each day for it to make up for the low cost weekends and extended low rate period from EDF.

If you have a higher constant load and are a typical working family where there isn't a lot of usage between 8am-5pm as everyone is at work/school etc. but you use more power in the evenings and weekends and could delay some things to 9pm but would find it harder to shunt them after midnight, or need more than 4 hours after midnight, then you are going to find EDF a better choice.

Always going to be personal reasons to prefer one over the other due to usage.

 

[Mr Miserable]

So I have been pondering a tariff switch too...
I decided to trawl for EV tariffs and compare.

In this 1st spreadsheet, my normal useage (a guesstimate) with Simplicity works out at £57.63 per month. Our house is occupied throughout the day and so most useage is during the Standard tariff periods.

However, along comes the Model 3 and the requirement to charge at home. Assuming 200 kWh per month (approx 10,000 miles pa) and charged during the Standard tariff period the figures look like this:

So my monthly bill has risen to £78.66 and we have had no change of lifestyle and the tariff still works out cheaper than any of the EV tariffs.

So what if we do go for an EV tariff with off peak rates. Let's see what happens if I just charge the car during the off peak hours.

Octopus Go will save me just over £3 a month. Not as much as I hoped for quite frankly.
What is noticeable is how bad value some of these EV tariffs are. OK some are big on their 'greeness' but others are just plain old expensive.

A point to note is that I was unable to get a Standing Charge rate for the British Gas & Scottish Power tariffs - I arbitrarily gave them 25p.
If I get an answer, particularly from Scottish Power, I'll post an update and probably post the spreadsheet so others can input their tariff and useage and compare.

Anyway, for the moment we have decided to remain with Simplicity.

Let me know if I have missed a tariff or have any incorrect figures.

 

[mrobins64495]

F

So I have been pondering a tariff switch too...
I decided to trawl for EV tariffs and compare.

In this 1st spreadsheet, my normal useage (a guesstimate) with Simplicity works out at £57.63 per month. Our house is occupied throughout the day and so most useage is during the Standard tariff periods.

View attachment 446883


However, along comes the Model 3 and the requirement to charge at home. Assuming 200 kWh per month (approx 10,000 miles pa) and charged during the Standard tariff period the figures look like this:

View attachment 446884

So my monthly bill has risen to £78.66 and we have had no change of lifestyle and the tariff still works out cheaper than any of the EV tariffs.

So what if we do go for an EV tariff with off peak rates. Let's see what happens if I just charge the car during the off peak hours.

View attachment 446885

Octopus Go will save me just over £3 a month. Not as much as I hoped for quite frankly.
What is noticeable is how bad value some of these EV tariffs are. OK some are big on their 'greeness' but others are just plain old expensive.

A point to note is that I was unable to get a Standing Charge rate for the British Gas & Scottish Power tariffs - I arbitrarily gave them 25p.
If I get an answer, particularly from Scottish Power, I'll post an update and probably post the spreadsheet so others can input their tariff and useage and compare.

Anyway, for the moment we have decided to remain with Simplicity.

Let me know if I have missed a tariff or have any incorrect figures.

Find this really interesting.

Having looked at it myself, it seems to work out cheaper to get a good fixed tariff. My current SEE is 13.2p per KWH and 2.9kwh for Gas flat rate with a 20p standing charge. .. Annoyingly we're out almost all day but as the house was built with a Gen 1 meter nobody will swap it out.

Spoke to EDF today and their flat rate drops to 11.2p per KWH flat rate, but their gas is 3.2p per kwh... with a 27p standing charge...

I must admit finding the best deal get's frustrating.

 

[Mark_T]

Anyway, for the moment we have decided to remain with Simplicity.

Let me know if I have missed a tariff or have any incorrect figures.

I suspect your spreadsheet is not giving you accurate answers.

I've looked at your numbers and you are not allowing for the large differences in what constitutes 'off-peak'.

In the case of Octopus, you are over-stating the savings on their off-peak as it only covers 4 hours a day.

In the case of EDF you are dramatically understating the value of their off-peak as you make no allowance for the entire weekends at the off-peak rate and the additional 3 hours each day during the week.

As a rough calculation, EDF would actually cost you about £12 a month less than you suggest, but that is still not going to change your decision, and the slight saving you show on Octopus would most likely turn out to be a slight increase over your current supplier once you allow for the reduced off peak hours.

Your current flat rate supply is at a price that nobody else is close to offering so there would be no point in you moving.

 

[Durzel]

Octopus has a clear heavy bias towards EV cars. If you have an EV usage that would mean you can charge the car fully during those off-peak hours, and general usage outside of it, then it would appear to be a no-brainer.

But if you use a lot of power generally, then the EDF all weekend off-peak would probably work out cheaper.

Good spreadsheet but unless I'm missing something obvious, and as said above, you haven't factored in the duration of the peak/off-peak periods, which would be critical for your particular usage.

 

[Epico]

Octopus has a clear heavy bias towards EV cars. If you have an EV usage that would mean you can charge the car fully during those off-peak hours, and general usage outside of it, then it would appear to be a no-brainer.

But if you use a lot of power generally, then the EDF all weekend off-peak would probably work out cheaper.

Good spreadsheet but unless I'm missing something obvious, and as said above, you haven't factored in the duration of the peak/off-peak periods, which would be critical for your particular usage.

How many people in reality need to full charge the car from empty every night?

4 hours on a 7kw charger should get you over 100 miles. Enough for most for everyday surely? Plus putting timers on high energy stuff like dishwasher will help. I have solar panels so this is going to a lot of experimenting in the summer as to the cheapest way to do things...I see some spreadsheets being created!

 

[Mark_T]

How many people in reality need to full charge the car from empty every night?

4 hours on a 7kw charger should get you over 100 miles. Enough for most for everyday surely? Plus putting timers on high energy stuff like dishwasher will help. I have solar panels so this is going to a lot of experimenting in the summer as to the cheapest way to do things...I see some spreadsheets being created!

This is exactly why the right answer can be different for each of us.

With Solar you'd be able to seriously look at something like Bulb's smart tariff which has punitive charges for 3 hours late afternoon/early evening when you could use your stored solar each day and then low prices for the rest of the day and a decent off-peak rate all night.

... for most people without an alternative energy source the bulb smart tariff would have too great an impact on life-style.

 

[Epico]

This is exactly why the right answer can be different for each of us.

With Solar you'd be able to seriously look at something like Bulb's smart tariff which has punitive charges for 3 hours late afternoon/early evening when you could use your stored solar each day and then low prices for the rest of the day and a decent off-peak rate all night.

... for most people without an alternative energy source the bulb smart tariff would have too great an impact on life-style.

If I had a storage solution then that would be good...just forked kit the best part of £45k for a car...can't afford a powerwall as well!

 

[Roy W.]

I just thought I’d let you know that my transfer to Octopus GO went without a hitch.

I went live with Octopus last Friday, the same day I collected my car, but that was on a fixed tariff. It takes them a couple of days to set up the smart metering, and I’ve had confirmation today that I’m now on the GO tariff from midnight tonight.

I’ve been very impressed with Octopus so far. The move has been quick and pain-free, just like ordering a Model 3

Communication has been all email, but everything has happened on the dates stated.

I’ll be charging the car tonight on my 5p units

If anyone wants to move to Octopus, and you’ve found my posts helpful, DM me for my referral code. We both get a £50 bill credit once you’ve switched

 

[Beady3647]

I wish I could say the same about Octopus. I went 'live' on a standard tariff on August 18th and was told that 'Go' was imminent. Since then there have been in excess of ten emails back and forth and still 'Go' is not in place. They approved my existing smart meter immediately and I've had emails asking me to complete a three question form and 'Go' will be live from midnight. Every time I try to complete it tells me there is a problem that their technicians will fix. I've been telling them that for nearly a week now.

At 16:38 today I receive an email telling me that the only tariff I have is 'Octopus 12 month fixed tariff for both gas and electric'. I immediately reply demanding to know when 'Go' will become live - since then SFA!

I've emailed them yet again a few minutes ago but don't hold out too much hope. Although they encourage you to use email I will be trying a phone call tomorrow morning to sort it out once and for all and if necessary change my supplier (that'll be twice in 14 days) and a phone call to the regulator.

 

[Mark_T]

I've emailed them yet again a few minutes ago but don't hold out too much hope. Although they encourage you to use email I will be trying a phone call tomorrow morning to sort it out once and for all and if necessary change my supplier (that'll be twice in 14 days) and a phone call to the regulator.

I've had my problems with Octopus, but communication wasn't one of them.

I may not always have liked the answers (at least to the first two emails) but they were relatively prompt, mostly a reply in less than 48 hours.

The regulator is probably not on the cards for you though as you've got to fully run through their own complaint system and give them up to 8 weeks to resolve the problem.

I would say that the front line staff are not always the best at dealing with things that are off-script, so I'd ask for your problem to be escalated to a supervisor.

 

[jefoth]

Be sure to get a referral code when switching to octopus...I can message you mine if you want it...just let me know

Yes - please send me a referral code. Tx.

 

[Epico]

Yes - please send me a referral code. Tx.

Dm'd you...

Anyone else want please let me know

 

[Roy W.]

Dm'd you...

Anyone else want please let me know

Ditto if anyone else wants one please let me know

 

[Neil_dsb]

Please beware of octopus Go, switched in Feb, waited until July for smart meter, it's still not connected 6 for so weeks later!

 

[Roy W.]

Please beware of octopus Go, switched in Feb, waited until July for smart meter, it's still not connected 6 for so weeks later!

That’s poor! What do they say about it?

In my case I already had a smart meter, and within 3 days of going live with Octopus I was then on the GO tariff.

 

[Mark_T]

Please beware of octopus Go, switched in Feb, waited until July for smart meter, it's still not connected 6 for so weeks later!

It is a SMETS2 meter?

Are there local issues like poor mobile signal strength?

 

[fredsoneya]

That’s poor! What do they say about it?

In my case I already had a smart meter, and within 3 days of going live with Octopus I was then on the GO tariff.

What smart meter did you have? I have one with Shell Energy (was First Utility) but I've heard only some are compatible?

 

[Roy W.]

What smart meter did you have? I have one with Shell Energy (was First Utility) but I've heard only some are compatible?

Mine was put in by OVO. It’s SMETS1, about two years old, but the same make - Secure - that Octopus use.