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[UK] FSD general discussion

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People complaining about the pace of FSD development are turkeys requestion Christmas comes earlier.

I think thouse that ordered early could be forgiven to have thought that that things were pretty much done... this was May 2019 btw. So well past 'Coming later this year'. And as for summon allowing your parked car to come find you anywhere in a car park. Really? And that was without the 'coming later this year' caveat let alone 3 years later... And some have been waiting even longer.

They haven't even attempted one regulatory approval that I am aware of, let alone in multiple jurisdictions. And lets not get into the competence of the features that are so called complete oops, still in beta...

At least we were not heavily enticed in ordering with the car rather than waiting after delivery to see the real truth.

But hey, some people think that complaining about this level of misrepresentation is completely unacceptable...

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I think thouse that ordered early could be forgiven to have thought that that things were pretty much done... this was May 2019 btw. So well past 'Coming later this year'. And as for summon allowing your parked car to come find you anywhere in a car park. Really? And that was without the 'coming later this year' caveat let alone 3 years later... And some have been waiting even longer.

They haven't even attempted one regulatory approval that I am aware of, let alone in multiple jurisdictions. And lets not get into the competence of the features that are so called complete oops, still in beta...

At least we were not heavily enticed in ordering with the car rather than waiting after delivery to see the real truth.

But hey, some people think that complaining about this level of misrepresentation is completely unacceptable...

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I also purchased FSD in May 2019, but I was well aware of what it did and didn't contain in the UK having done my research and not relying on that very brief information on the ordering page. I would say you absolutely have a case that it was misrepresented as they included the US capabilities of advanced summon. I've heard of other people that have had refunds and had the service removed, how far have you tried it? Strictly Tesla can't submit a car for approval for driving on city streets in the UK or EU as there isn't a testing or approval in existence yet, so you'll struggle to pin that on them.

This doesn't change my prediction, Tesla aren't building the company to keep selling cars to us, once they achieve Level 4 autonomy I strongly expect consumer sales to stop. I also wouldn't put it past them to freeze consumer development as it's no longer important. We are close to the end of the 'happy time' where as owners we get some features targeted at us.
 
FSD will always be in beta is my guess. With regard to autonomous driving when do you declare development is done? I am not suggesting Tesla has ever been reliable with their stated timing of anything. But self-driving cars, whoever gets there first, will always hopefully be further improving.
 
Strictly Tesla can't submit a car for approval for driving on city streets in the UK or EU as there isn't a testing or approval in existence yet, so you'll struggle to pin that on them.

Odd that you say not in existence yet, as long prior to 2019 the company that I worked for had a true Level 4 car (there was no driver or steering wheel) approved and running in UK public. So the ability for a company to get approval was most definitely there should Tesla had a product that they intended to approve. In hindsight, Tesla completely misrepresented their intentions and had they a product that was to be ready by the end of the year, they most certainly could have gone for approval.

Unfortunately, I was swayed by previously working for a company the fraction of the size of Tesla already having this capability, and having had that capability for quite a few years, but foolishly thinking that a far larger company with far greater resources were actually ahead of what we were doing and just not showing their hand. Alas, I foolishly believed that they had a hand to play and not the bluff that I now realised that they were playing. But bully for you thinking that you knew better and realising that Tesla were actually talking out of their arses. Ironically, having hands on experience of delivering cutting edge technology, I was giving Tesla a bit of leeway, but 3 years leeway is a bit much especially as history now shows their bluff.
 
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Odd that you say not in existence yet, as long prior to 2019 the company that I worked for had a true Level 4 car (there was no driver or steering wheel) approved and running in UK public. So the ability for a company to get approval was most definitely there should Tesla had a product that they intended to approve. In hindsight, Tesla completely misrepresented their intentions and had they a product that was to be ready by the end of the year, they most certainly could have gone for approval.

Unfortunately, I was swayed by previously working for a company the fraction of the size of Tesla already having this capability, and having had that capability for quite a few years, but foolishly thinking that a far larger company with far greater resources were actually ahead of what we were doing and just not showing their hand. Alas, I foolishly believed that they had a hand to play and not the bluff that I now realised that they were playing. But bully for you thinking that you knew better and realising that Tesla were actually talking out of their arses. Ironically, having hands on experience of delivering cutting edge technology, I was giving Tesla a bit of leeway, but 3 years leeway is a bit much especially as history now shows their bluff.
They may have got specific approval for testing on public roads, but vehicle regulations are adopted from UNECE and their release of support for autonomy is very slow. Perhaps your previous company were not selling this Level 4 autonomous car.
 
They may have got specific approval for testing on public roads, but vehicle regulations are adopted from UNECE and their release of support for autonomy is very slow. Perhaps your previous company were not selling this Level 4 autonomous car.
Nothing to stop Tesla testing their cars in private tests. They may already be doing this for all we know, but if so, its only a recent thing. Problem is, Tesla seems to want the public to test their stuff, rather than conduct official limited controlled testing and reporting which we and others were doing, so I don't think Tesla ever had (or possibly even have) any intent to get approval for testing something unless they could do it their way en masse in public by public.

I would like to be wrong, as I still am still personally of the belief that had Tesla wanted to get to Level 3 (or even Level 4 capable) highways with their current platform, they could have done so with a fraction of the effort that they put into city streets. But they have shown no intent (at least in public) in which to do so and tbh, I personally have lost the will to continue to give any benefit of the doubt, especially with hindsight such as knowing the story behind their now infamous FSD sales video (The one with 'The person in the drivers seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything, the car is driving itself' at the start but forget to mention the 'this video is a compilation of drives as the car could not complete the circuit, sometimes without crashing'). But maybe when single stack goes out, this will fall out in the wash. But still a far cry from promises they were making 3 years ago. At least they have admitted that it was harder than they thought, but that's no consolation for those that for no fault of their own other than believing Tesla and EM, have paid largely for either vaporware or functionality that simply does not work to any level of reasonable expectation.
 
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Nothing to stop Tesla testing their cars in private tests. They may already be doing this for all we know, but if so, its only a recent thing. Problem is, Tesla seems to want the public to test their stuff, rather than conduct official limited controlled testing and reporting which we and others were doing, so I don't think Tesla ever had (or possibly even have) any intent to get approval for testing something unless they could do it their way en masse in public by public.

I would like to be wrong, as I still am still personally of the belief that had Tesla wanted to get to Level 3 (or even Level 4 capable) highways with their current platform, they could have done so with a fraction of the effort that they put into city streets. But they have shown no intent (at least in public) in which to do so and tbh, I personally have lost the will to continue to give any benefit of the doubt, especially with hindsight such as knowing the story behind their now infamous FSD sales video (The one with 'The person in the drivers seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything, the car is driving itself' at the start but forget to mention the 'this video is a compilation of drives as the car could not complete the circuit, sometimes without crashing'). But maybe when single stack goes out, this will fall out in the wash. But still a far cry from promises they were making 3 years ago. At least they have admitted that it was harder than they thought, but that's no consolation for those that for no fault of their own other than believing Tesla and EM, have paid largely for either vaporware or functionality that simply does not work to any level of reasonable expectation.
There's no maybe about it, people have shared pictures of the cars around the UK and we've seen the job adverts when they were hiring test drivers, last year I think. There are cars out there performing testing.

All of Tesla's development effort has been on city streets, as that supports their business model to transition to a robotaxi car service rather than auto manufacturer. It's really of limited value to me as that's not the bit of driving I care about changing, I would prefer the car to autonomously perform long distance motorway driving, however that's simply not clearly in their strategic interest.

What will be interesting is what happens when the UK and EU start assuring cars under the new UNECE standard for autonomous driving, this is purely about motorway driving and not city streets, but Tesla have created an obligation to deliver this based on selling FSD to customers and saying it will be enabled as regulations allow. Once regulations allow they would have serious questions if they aren't providing a service. This has been delayed and delayed but is still expected in 2023, we will wait and see,

Also, as I switched car and bought EAP it's completely unclear what the boundary of difference is between FSD and EAP as features develop.
 
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There's no maybe about it, people have shared pictures of the cars around the UK and we've seen the job adverts when they were hiring test drivers, last year I think. There are cars out there performing testing.

But you don't know what they are testing or to what level/regulation if any. All we know is that Tesla have advertised for test drivers and possibly have some marked test cars.

There is a huge difference between testing a car/vehicle within current regulations, and testing one for regulatory compliance that may or may not be in force at that point in time.

What we don't know is if these Tesla adverts were for performing tasks that are 'fully' within the current regulations, or like our L4, or other manufacturers L3 offerings L3, that are being tested outside the regulations perhaps for regulatory approval and needed special permission and procedures to carry out those tests.

Absolutely nothing stopping Tesla from testing far more advanced systems, eg L3 hands free highways, than any of their current offerings offer. No evidence that I can see that they are, unlike other car manufacturers who definitely are. Unless you know for sure that these adverts were for testing vehicles to gain regulatory approval? If not, then their comment about not enabling until gaining regulatory approval is mute. Their current offerings are hampered by poor implementation even within current regulations.

I agree about their current focus. Unfortunately EM has previously declared NoA etc to be done so really not sure whare that will end up. Had EM not declared this, EAP would have been the most useful to me had it worked as reasonable to expect and initially promised, however when I purchased, like you originally, EAP wasn't available or caveated by a significant price differential that focused attention on purchasing FSD unseen ahead of delivery and not getting to find the real worth of that product, as witnessed when Tesla briefly offered a free trial of EAP and pretty much universally was derided.
 
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But you don't know what they are testing or to what level/regulation if any. All we know is that Tesla have advertised for test drivers and possibly have some marked test cars.

There is a huge difference between testing a car/vehicle within current regulations, and testing one for regulatory compliance that may or may not be in force at that point in time.

What we don't know is if these Tesla adverts were for performing tasks that are 'fully' within the current regulations, or like our L4, or other manufacturers L3 offerings L3, that are being tested outside the regulations perhaps for regulatory approval and needed special permission and procedures to carry out those tests.

Absolutely nothing stopping Tesla from testing far more advanced systems, eg L3 hands free highways, than any of their current offerings offer. No evidence that I can see that they are, unlike other car manufacturers who definitely are. Unless you know for sure that these adverts were for testing vehicles to gain regulatory approval? If not, then their comment about not enabling until gaining regulatory approval is mute. Their current offerings are hampered by poor implementation even within current regulations.
They can't test for regulatory compliance until there is a regulation to test against. There isn't a regulation for city streets, and it doesn't look like there will be one for a long time yet in the UK or EU. There is a draft regulation for autonomous driving on a motorway, but I've not been able to determine if there is a testing procedure in place. We know that there will be a requirement for the Secretary of State for Transport to approve and add the car to a list (my insurance allows me to use autonomous cars on that approved list).

I have no idea what Tesla are testing, there have been some odd vehicles occasionally turn up on TeslaFi in Europe using the same version numbers as FSD in the US, but that could easily just be data errors. The adverts advise that people will need to drive without normal safety features enabled, but little else,
 
I'm still contemplating requesting Tesla to downgrade my car to EAP and refund me 50% of the cost I paid, or a refund for FSD entirely, based on the fact that I saw the "Coming later this year" on "Automatic driving on city streets", which isn't here 2 years later. I think I would have a good case in terms of small claims, if they don't play ball.
 

I don't think so. I think its the one discussed elsewhere on TMC and iirc was more to do with claim that FSD did not support MCU1 and they had to pay $1k to upgrade to MCU2. Some discussion of validity of that claim with some exasperated by Tesla not turning up to contest not making it a slam-dunk. Also, probably affects fewer and fewer cars by now too, at least original owners wise.
 
I mean seriously... Tesla will not have FSD in Europe in next 10 years. :)))

here's one interesting article from 2019

This one - from 2017 (!!!)

and then https://edition.cnn.com/2022/10/26/tech/ford-self-driving-argo-shutdown/index.html

Tesla misled buyers and misleading over and over again.

thunderf00t is very right in most extent.
 
Yeah, yeah. Standard clickbait headline.
FSD is still a beta and still requires the driver to pay attention, anyone saying the software caused a crash is looking for a scapegoat IMO. I’ll wait for the full facts, list like the various “brake failure” incidents where some dolt mashed the accelerator by accident and blames it on Tesla, I expect this will turn out to be driver error like most every other incident.
 
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If one believes the story then the car jumped into the left lane and slammed the brakes on. I have to admit that twice my S has violently tried to take a left turn off a dual carriageway - a manoeuvre one could marginally excuse due to a marked junction; except I was on TACC not NOA. And it’s certainly slammed the brakes on either as a severe phantom braking or because it couldn't take the corner it just tried to..
One argument is that it wasn't a suitable road to use TACC on - but then the car surely shouldn't let you. Tesla want their cake and eat it.
Excusing FSD as being beta is a crock. It’s rarely better than alpha and a heck of a long way to go.