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Unhappy with FSD sales and pricing

mikes_fsd

Banned
May 23, 2014
2,556
2,088
Charlotte, NC
Nah it's definitely a scam. It literally fits in the textbook definition of one, and it doesn't have to be illegal to be a scam.

Elon said my car will drive itself and be an appreciating asset. I bought FSD. I got a green light chime.
I wish all those that feel scammed, would join forces and sell their Tesla's just to show Elon what they all think.
Oh and move TF on with your lives without telling the rest of us -- that actually enjoy what we paid for -- that we should start thinking like the rest of you!
 

DerbyDave

Member
Jul 2, 2020
851
477
Kentucky
I'd sell my Tesla if I could get an extra $10K by advertising that it has FSD. While I didn't pay that, Musk keeps saying it is an investment and I will get my money back. I am sure you think he is right about this.
 
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mikes_fsd

Banned
May 23, 2014
2,556
2,088
Charlotte, NC
Musk keeps saying it is an investment and I will get my money back. I am sure you think he is right about this.
That is not how I came to my decision to buy Autopilot/FSD with all my Tesla's
My first experience was with AP1 when I first got the car, in 2016 AP1 was really "gimmicky" and that is ON the highway.
But within the first year there was so much improvement that it sold me on the delivery method & process (with lane keeping and the feature to change lanes by just indicating with the signal and letting AP1 do the work, not freaking out on curves and getting better at cresting hills)

So, I look at what the feature is advertised to do, here: Autopilot
I made sure I understood that there is no concrete commitment to a final date.
Using my experience of watching AP1 improve - it was a safe enough bet to put my money on FSD.

So far, I feel like FSD has followed the same path as AP1 only the new features are more dramatic in scope (traffic light & stop sign).
Features get added and they may be rough to start, but with each release they are refined and get better. (to me it is 3 steps forward 1 step back - with the updates)
The improvements are visible, to the point where I do not remember the last time a traffic light or stop sign was identified incorrectly.
It is easy to forget just how limited these features were unless you document it for yourself or watch some of the old videos from others.
 

mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
1,504
880
Bay Area CA
The *best* are the anonymous nicks that don't even own a Tesla bashing FSD. It's been like this every since Tesla started.

You have absolutely no business telling me whether I've been scammed or not. I know that I will get the value out of those (and I paid very little for FSD on the M3) and I went into the purchase with eyes wide open.

People here are turning red state/blue state. Take a freakin' chill pill.

Then there will be the boo birds who didn't purchase FSD, yet are constantly and impatiently bashing it who will cry, because when FSD is released and exceeds expectations the cost will be $15,000.
 

Cheburashka

Active Member
Jan 29, 2018
2,383
2,962
Los Gatos, CA
I wish all those that feel scammed, would join forces and sell their Tesla's just to show Elon what they all think.
Oh and move TF on with your lives without telling the rest of us -- that actually enjoy what we paid for -- that we should start thinking like the rest of you!

Why? The car has plenty of other merits.

I paid only $3K on top of EAP for FSD. That said, the features that were touted (actual full self-driving) vs. what we got (green light chime and stopping at intersections) are completely different. I think to most people those features aren't worth the $3K.


Word forms: scams, scamming, scammed
1. TRANSITIVE VERB
If someone scams a person or organization, they deceive them in order to get something valuable from them, especially money.
 

run-the-joules

Turgid Member
Aug 13, 2017
3,785
6,861
SF Bay
I wish all those that feel scammed, would join forces and sell their Tesla's just to show Elon what they all think.
Oh and move TF on with your lives without telling the rest of us -- that actually enjoy what we paid for -- that we should start thinking like the rest of you!

"Hurrrrr show Elon what you think by doing something that doesn't affect him at all hurrrrrrr"

edit: Hell, it actually makes things BETTER for him.

Unhappy current customers don't have much of a chance of getting that prick's attention, but unhappy former customers have none.
 
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run-the-joules

Turgid Member
Aug 13, 2017
3,785
6,861
SF Bay
No significant features?
There are lots of FSDbeta 8.x videos on YouTube. Only a couple thousand people are in the FSDbeta program and those that are waiting live vicariously through them. Tesla has been pushing out vision-only and they're on the cusp of releasing FSDbeta 9.0.


The only features that count are the ones that are actually released to the public. Even if/when that happens, it's just nav on autopilot for the street, and it's going to require tons of babysitting. I admit it'll be the first release towards FSD that actually matters, but we're still never going to get what we paid for on our current cars.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,523
5,471
The only features that count are the ones that are actually released to the public. Even if/when that happens, it's just nav on autopilot for the street, and it's going to require tons of babysitting. I admit it'll be the first release towards FSD that actually matters, but we're still never going to get what we paid for on our current cars.
Actually I would argue the people who paid $10k for FSD is getting more of what they paid for (and will get all they paid for when "city streets" came out), given by the time Tesla offered that price they updated the order page to make it clear which features you were getting in the immediate term. Of course whether the features are worth the price tag is all opinion, but that doesn't make it a "scam".

It's the earlier buyers that paid $3000 from 2016 that still have a long wait to go to get what they were promised (which were features that suggest L4 driving).
 
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run-the-joules

Turgid Member
Aug 13, 2017
3,785
6,861
SF Bay
Actually I would argue the people who paid $10k for FSD is getting more of what they paid for (and will get all they paid for when "city streets" came out), given by the time Tesla offered that price they updated the order page to make it clear which features you were getting in the immediate term. Of course whether the features are worth the price tag is all opinion, but that doesn't make it a "scam".

It's the earlier buyers that paid $3000 from 2016 that still have a long wait to go to get what they were promised (which were features that suggest L4 driving).
yeah fair point, I keep forgetting that the goalpost move changed more than eliminating enhanced autopilot.
 

DerbyDave

Member
Jul 2, 2020
851
477
Kentucky
A scam is when you say you can provide one million robotaxis where owners can make money, and full self driving at that level by the end of 2020 in order to sell a product in development knowing that the claim is nonsense and snake oil.
"Tesla announced last April (2020) that it would unleash a fleet of self-driving robotaxis on U.S. roads by 2020. As part of the plan, Tesla owners could loan out their fully autonomous vehicles when they're not using them, and Tesla would collect a share of the profits."​
 

cylonmode

Member
Jan 10, 2021
73
53
Waco, Texas
You have absolutely no business telling me whether I've been scammed or not. I know that I will get the value out of those (and I paid very little for FSD on the M3) and I went into the purchase with eyes wide open.

People here are turning red state/blue state. Take a freakin' chill pill.

Then there will be the boo birds who didn't purchase FSD, yet are constantly and impatiently bashing it who will cry, because when FSD is released and exceeds expectations the cost will be $15,000.

I'm not trying to trigger you, I'm just stating my opinion. Seems like alot of people agree with me as well... I love my Tesla and are REALLY glad I didn't bite on the FSD. I think its a scam... At least for now. There should be alot more shame and scrutiny for the way its been handled but the fan boys let it slide... Thats not me.
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
10,523
5,471
A scam is when you say you can provide one million robotaxis where owners can make money, and full self driving at that level by the end of 2020 in order to sell a product in development knowing that the claim is nonsense and snake oil.
"Tesla announced last April (2020) that it would unleash a fleet of self-driving robotaxis on U.S. roads by 2020. As part of the plan, Tesla owners could loan out their fully autonomous vehicles when they're not using them, and Tesla would collect a share of the profits."​
That paraphrasing is incorrect. It's actually the April before that (2019). Also according to that article Tesla didn't "announce" that. If you dig into the article it claims the following:
"Before the on-road demo, Tesla engineers .... Tesla expects that to happen by the end of the year, and in 2020 Tesla will launch a car-sharing program in select cities including San Francisco and New York, in which owners or lessees can join the Tesla Network and loan out their autonomy-enabled vehicles when otherwise not in use."
Will Tesla’s Robotaxis Come to Its Rescue? | Automobile Magazine
His "1 million" claim is referring to the amount of cars with the hardware by 2020, not that all cars counted will be able to use it (as obviously the select cities would only have a limited amount of vehicles, even if Tesla got the software ready in time).

It's not that clear if the paraphrasing above is talking about autonomy day or some other private investor event. Admittedly I didn't dig through Autonomy Day to find the direct quotes (I know to be extremely careful with paraphrasing as journalists tend to get thing horribly wrong when they do that). For example cutting out qualifiers and warnings.

"While the CEO repeated that Tesla will have over 1 million robotaxis on the road next year, and he expects to be “operating robotaxis next year with no one in them,” he did also warn investors, “Sometimes I am not on time, but I get it done.”"
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/04/22/elon-musk-says-tesla-robotaxis-will-hit-the-market-next-year.html
 
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DerbyDave

Member
Jul 2, 2020
851
477
Kentucky
That paraphrasing is incorrect. It's actually the April before that (2019). Also according to that article Tesla didn't "announce" that. If you dig into the article it claims the following:
"Before the on-road demo, Tesla engineers .... Tesla expects that to happen by the end of the year, and in 2020 Tesla will launch a car-sharing program in select cities including San Francisco and New York, in which owners or lessees can join the Tesla Network and loan out their autonomy-enabled vehicles when otherwise not in use."
Will Tesla’s Robotaxis Come to Its Rescue? | Automobile Magazine
His "1 million" claim is referring to the amount of cars with the hardware by 2020, not that all cars counted will be able to use it (as obviously the select cities would only have a limited amount of vehicles, even if Tesla got the software ready in time0.

It's not that clear if the paraphrasing above is talking about autonomy day or some other private investor event. Admittedly I didn't dig through Autonomy day to find the direct quotes (I know to extremely careful with paraphrasing as journalists tend to get thing horribly wrong when they do that).
I put the 2020 in quotes. My mistake. Actually worse the scan was going on over a year. It wasn't Tesla Engineers announcing the capability, it was Musk himself. In April, 2019, he said:
-- As for full autonomy, Musk noted: "the software problem should not be minimized." He continued that, "it's a very difficult software problem." Still, he promised that Teslas will be capable of self-driving by the end of this year and self-driving robo-taxis will be on the road in 2020. Also, in two years, the company will be making cars without steering wheels or pedals at all.--

Also -- "Next year for sure, we will have over a million robotaxis on the road," said Musk on October 21, 2019. "The fleet wakes up with an over-the-air update. That's all it takes." The giant still slumbers, apparently, because not one robotaxi is available, let alone a million."
 
Mar 20, 2021
9
11
94549
I paid $10,000 extra for FSD. For me, it wasn't worth it. For the extra 10K, the car will, on a limited access highway, change lanes to a faster lane, return to original lane and take freeway exits. It will also park itself and can be "summoned" in a parking lot. All of these functions must be supervised by the driver the same as a car without the FSD. The basic car still has adaptive cruise control and self steering, so the extra money doesn't provide all that much. The automatic parking sometimes aborts and parks too far from the curb in my experience. The Summon seems like a gimmick to me. If I had it to do over again, I would not pay the extra for FSD.
 

Les236

Member
Jan 20, 2018
224
104
Kissimmee, FL, Boston, MA
I paid $10,000 extra for FSD. For me, it wasn't worth it.
You don't actually have FSD yet, just Enhanced Auto Pilot. You have the "promise" that Tesla will roll out the FSD feature at some time in the future. There are many Beta testers, and Elon keeps promising FSD is right around the corner, but who knows. It is supposed to be released this year and then you will get additional functionality, but it still is a big question on whether you will ever get your money's worth. Depends on how long you plan on keeping the car.
 

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