yup. They are absolutely screwing over their early customers, the same people who tend to be loyal for life. But not anymore.
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Unhappy with FSD sales and pricing
- Thread starter KITT77
- Start date
yup. They are absolutely screwing over their early customers, the same people who tend to be loyal for life. But not anymore.
You paid $3k for FSD. Not $8k. You’re including Enhanced autopilot for $5k which they’ve already delivered...I wouldn’t expect them to refund people for enhanced autopilot no matter how terribly it’s features work
You paid $3k for FSD. Not $8k. You’re including Enhanced autopilot for $5k which they’ve already delivered...I wouldn’t expect them to refund people for enhanced autopilot no matter how terribly it’s features work
Terms have changed quite a bit and features have moved from one package to another but Enhanced Auto Pilot & FSD was purchased at the time for $8k. Today to get the equivalent is $10k but regardless I am still waiting for features I was promised and not delivered for over 4 years now.
SunCharged
Member
Supposedly FSD is now going to be considered in trade in value. I received a trade in quote for my LR RWD 3 with FSD today. I will be keeping my 3 for a long time it appears!
19.99 a month. 9.99 if you already subscribed to the premium data package
Today? Absolutely not.
But, would you pay $40K if it turned your car into a robotaxi that could go out and make $10/hour for you?
Lots of people would jump on that immediately.
This is a tough one for Tesla. Price it too high, nobody is going to want it. Price it too low, you tick off everyone who paid 8-10K for it.
I posted this in another thread, but IMO, a subscription to EAP would probably be easier to sell and price.
EAP is a “finished” set of features that has been sold as a package. With FSD, you’re partially buying access to something that is to come, so subscribing to that component doesn’t really make a lot of sense.
I’m sure Tesla can find people who’ll pay $100/month for FSD, but they’d do way better selling an EAP subscription for say...$20.
Where they have the features split EAP is half the cost of FSD so I would guess EAP at $125/month and FSD at $250/month. (But I really don't think they will make an EAP subscription option.)
If it is $100/month for FSD..... I don't think it would sit well for the people who paid $10K for it. But then again, it is Tesla. I wouldn't have paid $5K for EAP if I knew that a few months later, the standard AP would come free with every Tesla. The only thing I use all the time are TACC and AutoSteer.
What features of EAP actually work?
NoA still can not handle rush hour merges and exit, whatever happened to smart summon, I love the ability to park on hidden parking spots but turns out you can't park in the middle of a road or plan to drive by an open parking spot before tesla gives up and show an auto park sign unless spot is gone already.
NoA still can not handle rush hour merges and exit, whatever happened to smart summon, I love the ability to park on hidden parking spots but turns out you can't park in the middle of a road or plan to drive by an open parking spot before tesla gives up and show an auto park sign unless spot is gone already.
Tesla could price it that high (someone would pay it), but I don’t think they have to. They don’t incur any additional cost for pushing FSD to an additional Tesla.
I agree EAP subscriptions likely won’t happen, but if they could sell five $20-$40 EAP subscriptions for every one $100 FSD subscription (and I suspect they could), it would make sense.
Im not sure there is a way to price an FSD subscription that makes it both accessible and avoids rubbing FSD owners the wrong way.
Personally, the only thing I care about getting is auto lane change. I have a 3 month FSD trial and it’s the only thing I use consistently. I probably would have paid for EAP if it was an option at purchase just for that alone. It makes AP soooo much better.
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Lots of people including myself bought FSD early because we felt like the price would be higher later. This potential still holds true even if Tesla initially prices FSD subscription model at a reasonable monthly cost.
So my expectation is Tesla will make it really clear that the price for FSD can change at any time.
The key here is to maximize monthly revenue.
They might also completely kill off buying FSD in some regions where FSD has really poor sales. Like supposedly in China the take rate is only around 1%.
What I'm really curious about is the timing of it. Looks like they're trying to time the release on when FSD beta goes to general release. I believe it's more likely that the FSD beta will be far more limited than what people anticipated. But, it will be exciting enough that lots of people will jump onto the FSD subscription model at that point.
It's also possible that Tesla will create an internal group who's entire responsibility is to address customer complaints, and get things fixed. Most issues with NoA/Smart Summons are very specific to what area you're using it in. NoA could easily go from a worthless pile of garbage to something really useful with fixes to maps/code/etc. This could significantly enhance stick rates.
In any case the Subscription Model will be a complete game changer. People in general are a lot my hyperactive about monthly bills. Like with FSD all you have to do is convince your other brain, your wife, or your alien overlord that FSD is a good idea ONE time. With the subscription model you have to do it every month. Good luck with that if it sucks.
As an FSD owner I hope they completely kill off the ability to buy FSD when the subscription model comes out. Where they allow free transfers to new Tesla vehicles for X number of years as a way to placate owners who complain about how long the REAL FSD is taking.
To operate an autonomous fleet you have to have monthly revenue to pay for fleet management, liability insurance, etc. You don't want to pay for that using dead money (from when they person bought FSD), but new money that can be priced properly. So it's time for Tesla to move on from selling FSD.
I think you're missing some massive groups of people.
The biggest group that I can think of is Senior citizens. Where they still want their freedom, but they have issues with driving. Or they're worried about their driving, but they're too stubborn to let go of it. Quite a few of us including myself have had to take the keys away from our parents because they're a danger to others on the roads.
Older folks might not traditionally spend >$70K on a car, but exceptions are made.
In technology the price of something goes down fairly rapidly over time, and EV's a perfect example of this. The 2015 Model S I had was close to $100K when I bought it, but it doesn't have nearly the range/dollar that a new Model 3 offers or even the new Model S.
So I expect the cost of self-driving cars to quickly come down as the high demand from certain groups is satisfied. But, those groups will account for years, and years of lucrative sales.
For myself I'm kind of lucky in that Tesla didn't accomplish FSD because if/when they do I promised my mother I'd give her my car.
you massively overestimate how big the market is you are going on about.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
I say "almost" no one. I know 3 people with so much money that that would pay that much on a one week vacation. Got to be a bunch out there that I don't know. They have a pretty right mind.
I won't pay 40 grand though.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
$99.99, but wait, we will give you a free coffee mug if you pay for a year in advance. And if you call within the next 10 minutes, Elon will personally answer your call and give you an "I Love Elon" lapel pin.
Forget about the robotaxi. If it was true FSD where you could set a destination and then read/sleep/work/watch Netflix with no worries while the car drove and parked, there would probably be a lot of people who would be willing to pay quite a lot just for the QOL improvements alone. That’s a potentially big chunk of your life you can get back if you have a long commute or do road trips often. It could even have financial implications for the rest of your life outside of using the car as a robotaxi, depending on where you live and what jobs are available to you. Maybe you can take a high paying job in the city and instead of living close by and paying insane cost of living prices and housing costs, you can instead opt for a long commute from somewhere cheaper while you sleep in a makeshift bed in your backseat/trunk/hatchback storage area.
I don’t know if 40k is the right initial price point for people who wouldn’t be interested in commercial use of FSD as a robotaxi, but for true FSD I’d pay way more than 10k.
powertoold
Active Member
The new 2021.3 update made NoA seem a lot better for me. I was driving in a new city the last two days, and it's better at figuring out which interchange and which lanes to be in than I can. Totally worth the money if you can afford it.
I don't think it's very useful if you're mostly driving in areas you're already familiar with, but for road trips or unfamiliar highways, it's very useful. The speed control is getting a lot better on interchanges. The lane logic is getting better, especially when lanes merge or split into two.
I personally turn off the voice navigation, so on road trips, I sometimes miss interchanges or exits, which end up costing me a lot of extra driving time. With NoA, it's much less likely I'll miss any of these.
Like I said, fsd is improving on a routine basis. If you don't want to miss out on these improvements and can afford it, I think fsd is becoming more and more useful in a practical way.
I don't think it's very useful if you're mostly driving in areas you're already familiar with, but for road trips or unfamiliar highways, it's very useful. The speed control is getting a lot better on interchanges. The lane logic is getting better, especially when lanes merge or split into two.
I personally turn off the voice navigation, so on road trips, I sometimes miss interchanges or exits, which end up costing me a lot of extra driving time. With NoA, it's much less likely I'll miss any of these.
Like I said, fsd is improving on a routine basis. If you don't want to miss out on these improvements and can afford it, I think fsd is becoming more and more useful in a practical way.
MikeHolliday
Member
If I was in an accident an the insurance would not replace the FSD I would be in court using a major law firm. The definition of Insurance is to be made whole, or as before, not to benefit nor gain. If they did not replace the FSD, then you are not being made whole.
Did the insurance company know that you purchased FSD and did they increase your rates accordingly? After buying FSD my insurance did not change so I would not expect it to be covered.
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