UP vs MPP Coilover

[Mash]

I have to say that KW/MPP as well as UP and almost any other damper system is filled with nitrogen instead of air. Reason for nitrogen is to decrease valves oxidation by removing oxygen from the air (do you still remember that air is mostly nitrogen?). Reason for gas is absorption of small vibrations. It's not a unique Ohlins feature.

Another thing that makes no sense to brag about is digressive valving - almost everyone including stock does it. It just doesn't make sense to keep linear response except extreme cost saving.

Key difference of proper aftermarket is harder springs which make car higher frequency and so valving have to be adjusted to be slower (slower = stiffer). Plus usually coilovers is the only way to lower a car without killing travel and valve-spring balance.

Adjustability useful for a track (although most people have no idea what to change and how to check it, despite availability of Google) to keep wheels planted better on specific track, but then usually that also requires different springs for very different tracks.

Larger oil capacity on monotube design keeps damper longer within the target damping range before it will overheat from rough riding. That comes at the cost of durability - rebuilding (revalving, refilling, resealing and retesting) required much more often.

If somebody sees mistakes in the stuff above - let me know, but I believe it makes sense to decrease amount of magical perception about suspension on this forum. Stock suspension is too soft for spirited driving of such a heavy car.

 

[Kennyg]

I have to say that KW/MPP as well as UP and almost any other damper system is filled with nitrogen instead of air. Reason for nitrogen is to decrease valves oxidation by removing oxygen from the air (do you still remember that air is mostly nitrogen?). Reason for gas is absorption of small vibrations. It's not a unique Ohlins feature.

Another thing that makes no sense to brag about is digressive valving - almost everyone including stock does it. It just doesn't make sense to keep linear response except extreme cost saving.

Key difference of proper aftermarket is harder springs which make car higher frequency and so valving have to be adjusted to be slower (slower = stiffer). Plus usually coilovers is the only way to lower a car without killing travel and valve-spring balance.

Adjustability useful for a track (although most people have no idea what to change and how to check it, despite availability of Google) to keep wheels planted better on specific track, but then usually that also requires different springs for very different tracks.

Larger oil capacity on monotube design keeps damper longer within the target damping range before it will overheat from rough riding. That comes at the cost of durability - rebuilding (revalving, refilling, resealing and retesting) required much more often.

If somebody sees mistakes in the stuff above - let me know, but I believe it makes sense to decrease amount of magical perception about suspension on this forum. Stock suspension is too soft for spirited driving of such a heavy car.

 

[Kennyg]

Great info Mash!

 

[VisitorQ]

I have to say that KW/MPP as well as UP and almost any other damper system is filled with nitrogen instead of air. Reason for nitrogen is to decrease valves oxidation by removing oxygen from the air (do you still remember that air is mostly nitrogen?). Reason for gas is absorption of small vibrations. It's not a unique Ohlins feature.

Another thing that makes no sense to brag about is digressive valving - almost everyone including stock does it. It just doesn't make sense to keep linear response except extreme cost saving.

Key difference of proper aftermarket is harder springs which make car higher frequency and so valving have to be adjusted to be slower (slower = stiffer). Plus usually coilovers is the only way to lower a car without killing travel and valve-spring balance.

Adjustability useful for a track (although most people have no idea what to change and how to check it, despite availability of Google) to keep wheels planted better on specific track, but then usually that also requires different springs for very different tracks.

Larger oil capacity on monotube design keeps damper longer within the target damping range before it will overheat from rough riding. That comes at the cost of durability - rebuilding (revalving, refilling, resealing and retesting) required much more often.

If somebody sees mistakes in the stuff above - let me know, but I believe it makes sense to decrease amount of magical perception about suspension on this forum. Stock suspension is too soft for spirited driving of such a heavy car.

Not sure if that was ‘dig’ on my post , but I wasn’t ‘bragging’ about anything just stating my opinion and what the actual diacriptukn from maker is .

thank for your info , all very worthy and helpful to the discussion. . As you said this heavy of a car Needs a better suspension set up for spirited driving.

 

[Mash]

Not sure if that was ‘dig’ on my post , but I wasn’t ‘bragging’ about anything just stating my opinion and what the actual diacriptukn from maker is .

thank for your info , all very worthy and helpful to the discussion. . As you said this heavy of a car Needs a better suspension set up for spirited driving.

Aftermarket manufacturers brag about absolutely standard stuff. Like nitrogen fill. Next time somebody will proudly present Teflon seals that everyone already uses.

Dampers are not that magical - they all doing the same job of converting car movement energy to heat to find a balance of keeping wheels planted while decreasing top mount movements. They built for different target of average driving styles and road conditions, but technologies more or less the same everywhere - some tradeoff of reliability for hear capacity only. And there are tons of small manufacturers or small companies that order OEM who don't know what they do, so they get hideous results.

I hope that extra time Tesla took for Roadster will go into something like voice coil damper on air suspension - that can blow out all mechanical/air/magnetic dampers. Other than that - all dampers for Model 3 are same technology more or less. Reliability and aftermarket service is more important. And KW is quite reliable, while MPP is just outstanding at service. For my taste KW/MPP spring rates are good and damper valvings are matched, while V3 design is quite mature and reliable.

 

[TwoK4drSi]

So in my research and down to main construction...I see that @UnpluggedP uses a monotube and @MountainPass uses a twin tube. It looks like monotube is a better more expensive design. I know it doesn’t tell the whole story to performance but starting with the shock body thats what I can see. UP uses Ohlins and MPP uses KW which both are very reputable companies. I’m kinda surprised not many people aren’t running UP since they’re local and from USA. Both companies race their products so *shrugs*. I know UP warranties their products for 2 years. Their camber / toe arms have a 5 year warranty. Not sure about MPP.

Before you kill me with comments I’m not knocking on either company at all because both are great. Just stating what I see bc I’m in the market for coilovers. Hopefully this thread will help others make a decision too.

Monotube Vs Twin-Tube - What is the Difference? What is Better? - ISC Suspension

 

[mcbarnet007]

So in my research and down to main construction...I see that @UnpluggedP uses a monotube and @MountainPass uses a twin tube. It looks like monotube is a better more expensive design. I know it doesn’t tell the whole story to performance but starting with the shock body thats what I can see. UP uses Ohlins and MPP uses KW which both are very reputable companies. I’m kinda surprised not many people aren’t running UP since they’re local and from USA. Both companies race their products.

Monotube Vs Twin-Tube - What is the Difference? What is Better? - ISC Suspension

UP claims that they use Ohlins internal but does not say which part, it could be a seal or a ring or even just the oil. If you want real Ohlins damper you need to go with redwoodmotorsports.

 

[TwoK4drSi]

UP claims that they use Ohlins internal but does not say which part, it could be a seal or a ring or even just the oil. If you want real Ohlins damper you need to go with redwoodmotorsports.

I’m pretty sure it’s like McDonalds secret sauce and how no one publishes their spring rate so people don’t copy.

MPP has their coilovers; KW has their own
UP has their coilovers; Redwood/Öhlins has their own

 

[mcbarnet007]

I’m pretty sure it’s like McDonalds secret sauce and how no one publishes their spring rate so people don’t copy.

MPP has their coilovers; KW has their own
UP has their coilovers; Redwood/Öhlins has their own

Except that UP uses Swift springs so you can see exactly the spring rate that they are using. Redwood also publishes their spring rate. My point is don't take the mono tube vs twin tube design difference too seriously. What's more important is the tech inside, user feedback and, what you want to achieve out of the setup.

 

[James Cole]

Question is redwood/ohlins better than these two?

 

[mcbarnet007]

There is a comparison by Beastmode13 that you can read about

 

[Mash]

Monotube design is really should be race only. NVH is significantly worse. KW spent dozens of years to fight foaming and I doubt that anyone can get them to measurably foam on Tesla - just not enough battery and charging speed. It's also not true that the main reason for twin tube is a cost - Tein mono/twin prices are not that different.

 

[markli]

Have you considered Redwood Motorsports Ohlins Coilover?

I use them for almost 6 months, been great, and no issues so far.

 

[MountainPass]

I’m pretty sure it’s like McDonalds secret sauce and how no one publishes their spring rate so people don’t copy.

MPP has their coilovers; KW has their own
UP has their coilovers; Redwood/Öhlins has their own

Now I want a big mac.

 

[VisitorQ]

Aftermarket manufacturers brag about absolutely standard stuff. Like nitrogen fill. Next time somebody will proudly present Teflon seals that everyone already uses.

Dampers are not that magical - they all doing the same job of converting car movement energy to heat to find a balance of keeping wheels planted while decreasing top mount movements. They built for different target of average driving styles and road conditions, but technologies more or less the same everywhere - some tradeoff of reliability for hear capacity only. And there are tons of small manufacturers or small companies that order OEM who don't know what they do, so they get hideous results.

I hope that extra time Tesla took for Roadster will go into something like voice coil damper on air suspension - that can blow out all mechanical/air/magnetic dampers. Other than that - all dampers for Model 3 are same technology more or less. Reliability and aftermarket service is more important. And KW is quite reliable, while MPP is just outstanding at service. For my taste KW/MPP spring rates are good and damper valvings are matched, while V3 design is quite mature and reliable.[/QUOTE

good luck with those

 

[skrtskrt]

So far I've had Eibach springs on my P3D+ for over a year and they have been fantastic but I want to improve the handling and driving. I have no plans to track the car. I'm mainly focused on having fun driving hard around corners/curvy/twisty roads in the backyards. I recently just ordered UP swaybars as I've heard those help a lot to be more planted and flat around the corners. Others have suggested MPP steel brake lines, MPP front lower control arm bushings, can anybody vouch for those? And then my next modification I want to do is to add coilovers but don't know which one I should chose. UP's are a bit cheaper ($2500 vs MPP $2690). I am on a bit of a budget. Would adding the break lines and front lower control arm brushings alongside the swaybars be enough for my needs? How much more value would I get for adding coilovers?

A UP rep told me the following: "The UP coilovers are a bespoke coilover made from scratch for the Model 3. They are also “mono tube” design. Simple and easy to adjust without needing a suspension engineer to get it just right. One of my favorite parts of the UP coilovers is that they have a extended dampening adjustment knob that allows you to adjust ride comfort with no tools by simply opening the frunk."

And yet I still don't know if those outweigh MPPs coilovers lol


Any insight or suggestion would help!

 

[Mash]

So far I've had Eibach springs on my P3D+ for over a year and they have been fantastic but I want to improve the handling and driving. I have no plans to track the car. I'm mainly focused on having fun driving hard around corners/curvy/twisty roads in the backyards. I recently just ordered UP swaybars as I've heard those help a lot to be more planted and flat around the corners. Others have suggested MPP steel brake lines, MPP front lower control arm bushings, can anybody vouch for those? And then my next modification I want to do is to add coilovers but don't know which one I should chose. UP's are a bit cheaper ($2500 vs MPP $2690). I am on a bit of a budget. Would adding the break lines and front lower control arm brushings alongside the swaybars be enough for my needs? How much more value would I get for adding coilovers?

A UP rep told me the following: "The UP coilovers are a bespoke coilover made from scratch for the Model 3. They are also “mono tube” design. Simple and easy to adjust without needing a suspension engineer to get it just right. One of my favorite parts of the UP coilovers is that they have a extended dampening adjustment knob that allows you to adjust ride comfort with no tools by simply opening the frunk."

And yet I still don't know if those outweigh MPPs coilovers lol


Any insight or suggestion would help!

I think you can save on brake lines. Arm bushings have major effect on steering lag, so it makes sense, but you need a shop that has 20T or more press (12 might be not enough in some cases). UP shocks are stiffer and generally more suited for the track - they don't outweigh MPP in my opinion and MPP is better suited for your goals. Difference vs stock is tremendous - stock suspension is heavily underdamped for any spirited driving.

 

[butterscotch]

I have to say that KW/MPP as well as UP and almost any other damper system is filled with nitrogen instead of air. Reason for nitrogen is to decrease valves oxidation by removing oxygen from the air (do you still remember that air is mostly nitrogen?). Reason for gas is absorption of small vibrations. It's not a unique Ohlins feature.

Another thing that makes no sense to brag about is digressive valving - almost everyone including stock does it. It just doesn't make sense to keep linear response except extreme cost saving.

Key difference of proper aftermarket is harder springs which make car higher frequency and so valving have to be adjusted to be slower (slower = stiffer). Plus usually coilovers is the only way to lower a car without killing travel and valve-spring balance.

Adjustability useful for a track (although most people have no idea what to change and how to check it, despite availability of Google) to keep wheels planted better on specific track, but then usually that also requires different springs for very different tracks.

Larger oil capacity on monotube design keeps damper longer within the target damping range before it will overheat from rough riding. That comes at the cost of durability - rebuilding (revalving, refilling, resealing and retesting) required much more often.

If somebody sees mistakes in the stuff above - let me know, but I believe it makes sense to decrease amount of magical perception about suspension on this forum. Stock suspension is too soft for spirited driving of such a heavy car.

Mash,

Think I can PM you for KW/MPP adjustment questions regarding track days? I don't wanna spam the thread.

 

[TwoK4drSi]

I have the UPP coils on now. I’m letting things settle and finalizing height adjustment with dampening number and I’ll report back but for right now...much much better than aftermarket springs and oem shocks.

 

[SK360]

A UP rep told me the following: "The UP coilovers are a bespoke coilover made from scratch for the Model 3. They are also “mono tube” design. Simple and easy to adjust without needing a suspension engineer to get it just right. One of my favorite parts of the UP coilovers is that they have a extended dampening adjustment knob that allows you to adjust ride comfort with no tools by simply opening the frunk."

And yet I still don't know if those outweigh MPPs coilovers lol


Any insight or suggestion would help!

You really don't have to be a suspension engineer to use double adjustables and there are plenty of suggestions online for setups from mpp. I drilled my frunk liner and use a 2mm hex key to adjust the rebound on my fronts and plugged with a rubber grommet, I didn't want knobs there all the time.

I'm thrilled with my setup and will sing it's praises anytime I can