Then you're wrong.
As Laserbrain pointed out with the capture of the website, and anyone can verify by looking right now, actual peak output is listed for every variant except P85D, just as I stated.
Never mind about motor power. It used to be the same as actual output (because older variants weren't battery limited,) but since P85D was announced (and overpromised) it's just become a means of obfuscation.
You are talking about something completely different. I'm talking about what "motor power" means, which is the original topic. Not talking about the separate net power. They still list "motor power"
today for every model!
S70/S85: 382 motor power
S70D/S85D: 259 F/R motor power
P85D: 259 F / 503 R motor power
http://www.teslamotors.com/models#battery-options
And starting in October 2014 (with launch of dual motor models) until sometime in april 2015, they did not list a separate net power for the other variants at all, only the "motor power" was advertised. You can reference back to the article I posted:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news...ower-numbers-for-tesla-model-s-whats-the-deal
Evidence from internet archive that on 3/30/2015 it was still "motor power" only:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150330020918/http://www.teslamotors.com/models#battery-options
He is just making it up. I can't figure out where he gets most of his stuff because every time he quotes something it doesn't *actually* support what he's saying so he' either intentionally obfuscating or he just doesn't get it.
I knew you guys would claim I'm making things up, which is why I spent some time to gather all the numbers (with links!):
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...91HP/page119?p=1115469&viewfull=1#post1115469
See my response to JER for evidence that "motor power" was the only thing advertised for 5-6 months. And I've talked about it in previous posts, but I think it is not a coincidence they changed it back to net power after this thread started.
No. I'm not referring to that section. Bottom of page 32 (annex 5) "Minimum power of the generator:the power of the generator shall be limited to that necessary for the operation of accessorieswhich are indispensable for the operation of the engine. If the connection of a battery is necessary, a fully charged battery in goodorder must be used". That's just an example. Read the entire entire document.
Section 5.3 on page 9 "Description of tests for measuring the net power and the maximum 30minutes power of electric drive trainsThe electric drive train shall be equipped as specified in Annex 6 to thisRegulation. The electric drive train shall be supplied from a DC voltagesource with a maximum voltage drop of 5 per cent depending on time andcurrent (periods of less than 10 seconds excluded). The supply voltage of thetest shall be given by the vehicle manufacturer.Note: If the battery limits the maximum 30 minutes power, the maximum30 minutes power of an electric vehicle can be less than the maximum30 minutes power of the drive train of the vehicle according to this test."
There are other examples conditions and criteria. Read the whole document. It's not that long. It's clear they the drivetrain includes whatever DC source is going to be used to generate power, not just the electric motor. It doesn't have to be a battery but it does have to be part of the drivetrain i.e. whatever drivetrain is shipping in the production vehicle.
That's the only reference I saw that mentioned a battery. No where else does it do that in the EV. Can you show some examples that suggest the "drivetrain" is inclusive of the DC source? I didn't find any.
But the table missing "
yes: standard production equipment" for the DC source stands out to me. I see no reason to leave that out unless the standard did not expect it. I also looked at the long list of specs that the results are supposed to list and none of it mentions parameters for the DC source other than the DC test voltage.
It is true and the S70 with 315 hp and 0-60 of 5.5 *easily* makes more power than that. Same with the S70D. 328 hp and 0-60 in 5.2 seconds which is the same as the S85 which we *already* know dynos 375 at the wheels! Way more power than they claim. Anyone care to provide some rest data? Anyone want to borrow my vbox for some S70 or S70D testing? As far as the motors being the limiting factor in some of the drivetrains? I don't dispute that. My point is what power each drivetrain makes as delivered. The P85D maxes out at 550 hp at the battery. The S60 may or may not make the advertised power. We have no proof but it's suspect based on it's performance. The S85 has been proven. The 85D has been proven. The S70 and S70D haven't but it's clear from their performance that they easily exceed the speced power. Notice how Tesla has removed "motor power" even from S85 but it's still speced at the same power as before.
The S60 was tested at 5.1 0-60 by dragtimes, yet REST peaks at 243 kW. So it is not clear from the 0-60 alone that it makes the power. I thought we learned our lesson already from the P85D about the dangers of using 0-60 to estimate horsepower :wink:.
http://www.dragtimes.com/blog/tesla-model-s-60-kwh-vs-tesla-model-s-85-kwh-performance
And unless Tesla is making up their net power numbers completely, how do you explain why the motor power number is the same 382hp for S70 and S85, yet net power is 315hp vs 373hp?
http://www.teslamotors.com/models#battery-options
You previously said they must have made a mistake with the S60, yet the same exact phenomenon occurs with the S70 almost a year later.
If motor power means shaft power as you suggest, then the "motor power" should be proportionally more for the S85 compared to the S70. I have yet to see this point addressed.
I don't know what you mean already does make it. You've already admitted power is limited to 550 hp at the battery source. That's as upstream and GROSS as you can get. This is before DC-DC conversion, inverter conversion, accessories, or motor conversion of power to kinetic energy.
GROSS power is not simply taking a standard equipped vehicle and measuring upstream. Read the link I posted. Other than the engine, everything else up and downstream does not have to be the same as a standard equipped model. Wouldn't testing an electric motor with a DC power supply (as I suggest) be the same idea?
http://ateupwithmotor.com/terms-technology-definitions/gross-versus-net-horsepower/