Upgraded 85D?

[lolachampcar]

Stoney,
Terrifying == Good

 

[RDoc]

Does anyone know what the trade-off is between Normal and Sport Acceleration modes? Is there any reason not to just leave it in Sport mode? Assuming you don't punch it and you're in Sport mode, does it decrease the range?

 

[brianman]

Definitely not a placebo effect. New run today in sport mode: peak power draw 371kW (vs. 323 on Wednesday). It was honestly slightly terrifying as the driver.

That 371kW draw is higher than my P85 Sig has ever seen (REST telemetry for about 2 years). Just sayin'.

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Sorry, but I had to ask

370KW = 495hp

So how have you got 495hp out of 2x 221hp = 422hp motors that are supposedly only rated at 211hp in the S85D.
Not only that, you are well under 4secs for the 0-60 from your chart.

Now I am really confused (and P85D owners going to be pretty pissed too)

Definitely not pissed. Excited for you guys that the S85D is an even stronger offering than we thought.

 

[sandpiper]

That 371kW draw is higher than my P85 Sig has ever seen (REST telemetry for about 2 years). Just sayin'.

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Definitely not pissed. Excited for you guys that the S85D is an even stronger offering than we thought.

Not p'd at all. I can still outrun you, even if it's only by a little bit! I've gotta say, though... If I were ordering now, I might have gone with the 85D. It's a really strong offering.

I'm curious to see the first 85D / P85D drag video.

 

[trond.strom]

Not p'd at all. I can still outrun you, even if it's only by a little bit! I've gotta say, though... If I were ordering now, I might have gone with the 85D. It's a really strong offering.

I'm curious to see the first 85D / P85D drag video.

I want to see a P85D in Sport mode vs. a 85D in Sport mode !

Could it be that they are equal?

 

[rpc364]

The question that is rolling around in my engineering mind is: did TM achieve this hp increase by boosting the (constant) torque of the motor, the max current draw of the motor (my suspicion), or a combination of both? The first would boost acceleration times, the second would show up more significantly in higher top speeds. Has anyone seen any updates to the motor torque ratings? (My bet would be the so-called "overclocking" is basically just that - they are allowing more current draw at the top end, meaning higher horsepower, meaning higher top speeds.) If I had the time today, I would be doing a lot of Photoshop/overlays of the @Stoneymonster curves to understand the slope of the power/speed curves to tease out torque and torque differences between pre and post "sport mode" blasts...

I would also love to do some "field work", but my wife has our 85D in Napa this weekend with a bunch of girlfriends cruising around (in "normal mode"). Ughhhh!

 

[Stoneymonster]

The question that is rolling around in my engineering mind is: did TM achieve this hp increase by boosting the (constant) torque of the motor, the max current draw of the motor (my suspicion), or a combination of both? The first would boost acceleration times, the second would show up more significantly in higher top speeds. Has anyone seen any updates to the motor torque ratings? (My bet would be the so-called "overclocking" is basically just that - they are allowing more current draw at the top end, meaning higher horsepower, meaning higher top speeds.) If I had the time today, I would be doing a lot of Photoshop/overlays of the @Stoneymonster curves to understand the slope of the power/speed curves to tease out torque and torque differences between pre and post "sport mode" blasts...

If I get some more time, I'll pick two with the same timebase and put them side by side.

 

[brianman]

I'm curious to see the first 85D / P85D drag video.

I'm looking forward to the 85D / P85 drag video given the current info.

 

[beeeerock]

The question that is rolling around in my engineering mind is: did TM achieve this hp increase by boosting the (constant) torque of the motor, the max current draw of the motor (my suspicion), or a combination of both?

When the specs changed on the website, I asked my Tesla representative what was happening. He said the specification improvements were a result of Tesla learning that the drive system was more robust than they had previously believed. He used the word 'overclocked' in his explanation, which would seem to fit a good deal of what you're thinking.

Bottom line, that's frickin' quick! :biggrin:

 

[Stoneymonster]

Here is a before and after, both 8 seconds of data. I can try to figure out how to get the raw data out too maybe, not just plots, but you should be able to overlay these.

Before SW update:

After:

 

[thegruf]

^ Sport Mode presumably?

climbs to max hp in just over a couple of seconds now.
Impressive

 

[AmpedRealtor]

The 85D puts a huge damper on P85 resale value. I can configure a brand new 85D with all the same things my Dec 2012 P85 has and it costs pretty much the same. Except the new 85D is dual motor, has auto pilot potential, etc. And the 85D is just as fast 0-60 and probably faster in the 0-30 due to AWD.

I have a huge, huge level of regret purchasing when I did. I knew there'd be changes, but this is far beyond what Elon/Tesla had mentioned back when they were asked about potential changes in the future. Specifically, he said they didn't expect much significant change until a mid-model refresh a few years down the line. If I'd had any inkling of the massive level of changes that'd be put into place 2 years later, I'd have waited (and been a far richer man since I wouldn't have cached out stock to pay for my car....).

People sometimes analogize the pace of improvement by referencing something like iPhones, but I could afford to buy a new phone every couple years. Tesla is a once in a lifetime splurge for someone at my income level, a car I'd planned on having 15-20 years. Even just having used Adaptive Cruise Control on a loaner...damn, I'd happily have driven my crappy old ICE for 2 more years to have 15 years with a car with the autopilot sensors. It hurts knowing I missed my one shot.

It's good for Tesla though and it's good that's it's pushing forward the EV movement in general.

But for me...damn...huge early adopter regret.

I feel your pain. I, too, bought into the notion that the car will not change much until a mid-cycle refresh. Little did I know that was to come only 15 months after I bought my car. But then again, I've enjoyed my car a lot longer than I would have if I waited to buy. And if I had waited to buy, I don't think I would have been able to wait more than a year. That wouldn't have gotten me to Autopilot or the D. Hindsight is usually 20/20 and isn't realistic. Would you have waited all of this time? I would have waited a little longer, but not this long.

Think about the people who took delivery of their P85+ without Autopilot prior to the D launch. Talk about regret. They could get 95% of a P85+ in a S85D, and for over $20,000 less. Today we have the model lineup that we should have had at launch in 2012.

 

[thegruf]

... Today we have the model lineup that we should have had at launch in 2012.

And we also have a company that have 2 years more experience, hence we have the products today.
They do need to bring some order to the updates though.

If I order today with September delivery - I have no idea what I will get!

(Probably the last build before upgraded batteries and v2 Autopilot sensors).

Oh well just have to jump in somewhere

 

[hobbes]

I have a huge, huge level of regret purchasing when I did. I knew there'd be changes, but this is far beyond what Elon/Tesla had mentioned back when they were asked about potential changes in the future. Specifically, he said they didn't expect much significant change until a mid-model refresh a few years down the line. If I'd had any inkling of the massive level of changes that'd be put into place 2 years later, I'd have waited (and been a far richer man since I wouldn't have cached out stock to pay for my car....).

Problem is, with the pace Tesla is innovating at, it will probably stay this way. Doesn´t make sense to delay buying indefinitely because of that! Think of all the happy moments you had with your car.

Cars used to keep their value much longer than say computers - now that cars are becoming more similar to computers, that´s changing. Ironically, while everything tells us electric cars (and Teslas in particular) should have much less wear and need for replacement parts, because of the faster innovation the rate at which value goes down might still stay the same.

 

[Stoneymonster]

^ Sport Mode presumably?

climbs to max hp in just over a couple of seconds now.
Impressive

Oh yes, sorry. Sport mode on the second graph.

 

[MSEV]

I started a thread about the fast change here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...ld-Excitement-Disappointment-Faster-than-Fast
I got my 85D about a month ago.
I was disappointed when the 70D came out.
This thread got me excited about having an 85D.
I was on a trip last weekend with 199 mi between SupCs, and barely made it with my 85kW, so do I want less battery?
Definitely first world problems.
Tesla is going to change fast, faster than any known car company because of how they are doing this.
As someone said above, I am sure my 85D will be replaced, sooner than I would like.
I DOESN'T MAKE MY CAR WORSE when they come out with something better.
We bought the future and this is it!
Drive on!

 

[Stoneymonster]

I had zero regrets about the 85D after the 70D was announced. I've been in that 10-20 miles left mode on road trips before and with the 70D that would be zero. Now that there's a performance gap? Even better.

 

[lolachampcar]

I'm just glad I sold my P+ when I ordered the PD and not when the PD came in. The cars have seen huge depreciation in the last four months.

 

[Johan]

I started a thread about the fast change here: http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...ld-Excitement-Disappointment-Faster-than-Fast
I got my 85D about a month ago.
I was disappointed when the 70D came out.
This thread got me excited about having an 85D.
I was on a trip last weekend with 199 mi between SupCs, and barely made it with my 85kW, so do I want less battery?
Definitely first world problems.
Tesla is going to change fast, faster than any known car company because of how they are doing this.
As someone said above, I am sure my 85D will be replaced, sooner than I would like.
I DOESN'T MAKE MY CAR WORSE when they come out with something better.
We bought the future and this is it!
Drive on!

I agree. Tesla is developing at a very rapid pace and we just have to adjust to that.

 

[llavalle]

Just drove my car with the update. Nothing scientific - just from the "butt feeling". Was at 55% SOC for the record.

-From a standstill, the car is much faster - very similar to a P85D. In fact the 0-15mph feels exactly the same.
-When driving at 35mph.. if you punch it, it's more brutal. No smooth curve to full power. Full power, almost right away
-At highway speed there is not much difference.

Couple of notes
-This is the first time I get a bit of torque-steer on my car.
-I'm still on my winter tires - I'm clearly traction limited in the front. I could hear the traction control working its magic. Having more power on the back (P85D) would help in that case
-The sound of the inverter has changed
-After a couple of acceleration, I could here the coolant pump - this is my first time but it's getting hotter outside.

And weird side effect : when I park at home, I must stop at around 4in from the wall. Prior to this release, I would get a louder BEEP when at around 6in from the wall after the regular beep at around 12in. This second, louder beep did not happen tonight... and I almost hit the wall :S