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US government needs a "standard" in EV charging stations

Discussion in 'North America' started by Barryfins, Jul 31, 2014.

  1. Barryfins

    Barryfins Model S Owner

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  2. CmdrThor

    CmdrThor Member

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    If the government had a standard, there would be no superchargers. Maybe in time, but let the best "standard" rise to the top first.
     
  3. Barryfins

    Barryfins Model S Owner

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    In some ways I agree but a standard would require the auto manufactures to include a adapter for charging...

    Bata vs VHS
    Blue ray HD DVD
    AC vs DC
    Digital vs analog

    many many more are we better who knows... I hate government over site but I hat company greed can't we all just get along for the consumers...
     
  4. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    Actually, we have many standards for wall plugs. And we have many standards for 12v power. And certainly, there is no government mandate. We should not have a government imposed standard for EV plugs.
     
  5. dhrivnak

    dhrivnak Active Member

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    If Tesla would just ship the CHAdeMO, then your issues would be solved.
     
  6. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    No, CHAdeMO as it stands right now is too slow for too much money. It shouldn't exist.
     
  7. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    Well it isn't the US government, who generally don't put out standards like this anyway. But SAE has the J1772 standard. It is AC only and Tesla used everything but the connector shape for the Model S. This is why you can basically charge at ANY L2 station that you can find.

    As for DC standards well there aren't really any good all around standards. It looks like the SAE ComboPlug (single digit installations), CHAdeMO, and Tesla Supercharger are going to battle it out. And hopefully the best one wins.
     
  8. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    CHAdeMO's not too slow. It's the chargers that are too slow for Tesla owners because they're built for Leaf owners.
     
  9. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    I thought CHAdeMO maxed out at 125A and 500VDC (62.5kW max). Which would mean usable ~50kW charging with the battery voltages in current vehicles. Is their connector able to push more amps?
     
  10. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like Beta vs. VHS (BluRay vs. HD-DVD for the younger set) all over again. :smile:
     
  11. qwk

    qwk Model S P2681

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    Getting the government involved will only lead to a mediocre standard. Just look at the Blink network for proof.
     
  12. tga

    tga Active Member

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    What, exactly, are you asking for? A DC fast charge standard? J1772 is the EV charge station standard (at least for AC).

     
  13. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

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    Either way leave the government out of it. Let the people decide by what they buy. No need for regulation IMO.
     
  14. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    Optimal output power CHAdeMO Association

    As I understand it (OK, I admit it, I mean if Wikipedia's correct) the basis of CHAdeMO was a TEPCO development that went up to 200A.
     
  15. PhilBa

    PhilBa Active Member

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    Wow, I am always stunned when people think the government can come in and make it all right. Like, when has that actually happened?

    Let's look at their most recent foray into EV-land. They gave hundreds of million dollars to companies to put in chargers. What we got were networks of chargers that nobody uses. Meanwhile a company with nothing other than smarts and a need to meet their customer's needs spends much less and is well on the way to a national network of super chargers that EXCEEDS their customer's expectations. And a non-profit did a similar thing for a fraction of what the US Government spent and gave Canada a transcontinental network. So, please lets leave the dragging brake shoe of government out of this and get on with doing what the customers want and need, not what some idiot bureaucrat thinks should be done.
     
  16. techmaven

    techmaven Active Member

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    1++

    However, I'd add that government has many roles to play. Setting a standard like this is not one of them. Providing early funding in an appropriate manner is fine - as long as it is measured and has some level of competition. Too often the problem isn't that money is spent, but that it is spent wrong. Unfortunately we often don't write the laws in a particularly smart ways.

    For example, in my state, our IT infrastructure was outsourced to a single bidder - Northrop Grumman. It's a total screw up and now too big to fail. Instead, they could have fostered competition by creating a standards for outsourced IT services and helped grow Virginia's competitiveness in data centers. Again, not too smart.
     
  17. Evbwcaer

    Evbwcaer Member

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    Nobody is really speaking to a potential middle ground. What if there was a standard physical size for the "nozzle" and it had to feature AC and DC capability. That would be the only standard. Companies/consumers could figure out how much amperage they could handle, in AC, DC, or both. The guts/specifics of the system would be up to the private sector.

    If we had a limited standard so that every EV could make use of every charger, while leaving the specifics to the market, we could have a nice middle ground.

    I don't think this is the right path for sure, but it could be worth considering
     
  18. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    Good idea but there is a chance that would likely create a lot of confusion. Imagine pulling up to a charge station and the plug fits perfectly but it won't charge because it speaks a different language the car doesn't understand (different standard).
     
  19. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Active Member

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    The plug and cable really matter. Each type is a plug, cable and protocol. But there are already multi-protocol chargers out there and for DC I don't believe the cost is significant to add a protocol.

    Right now, I don't think there's a need to standardize since there's rapid development, but in the future I can see gub'mint wanting to specify a "base" standard that all chargers must have amongst a bunch of protocols they support; gub'mint would buy vehicles with that standard. As long as the rules don't restrict manufacturers from running proprietary networks (contention's a huge deal that "private" networks make sense) or mandate a single standard only, there'll be room for innovation.
     
  20. PhilBa

    PhilBa Active Member

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    There is much truth in this
    standards.png
     

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