Vision Only vs Radar - Observations from a 3 year owner

[Twiglett]

I have to say that the difference in AP between when I posted here in November and now (Feb) is amazing.
Still the occasional braking event, but nothing like it was back in November.
Everything is so much smoother. I'm back to smooth cornering that I had with radar last August.
No longer have panic braking for dark shadows etc.
FSD is another matter entirely, but even that have done pretty well over three months.

 

[iDerp69]

Just got a 2022 M3 with Vision a few days ago and I am very disappointed in AP. Coming from a 2020 M3 with radar, I had very few Phantom braking even on two lane highways. My first road trip had so many Phantom braking I had to disable and drive manually. Today in light fog, the AP would alert poor vision and slow down to 20 mph. My 2020 would go through heavier fog faster than I care to. I hope they fix this.

Literal same brother, went from 2020 M3 SR+ to the very newest 2022 M3 LR (Ryzen etc), autopilot is unusable for undivided rural highway driving, but ESPECIALLY so at night. Looking at trying to root, install, and reactivate the radar, which is apparently possible: Is it possible to install a radar sensor myself on a "no radar" Model Y/3

 

[ParkerLewis]

I personally have an early 2021 SR+ with radar and have essentially never had any phantom breaking issues with AP/TACC (I maybe had it happen twice since I own the car). I was considering buying another one, but if AP/TACC is not going to be at a comparable level, then that's a potential deal breaker for me.

So, how is it today ? Has there been any improvement since the first few months, and lately ? Note I am not interested / talking about FSD or FSD beta, but only base AP / TACC, on highway and in stop & go traffic. Does it perform as well today without radar, almost as well, better, catastrophically worse ?

 

[A321ELAC]

I personally have an early 2021 SR+ with radar and have essentially never had any phantom breaking issues with AP/TACC (I maybe had it happen twice since I own the car). I was considering buying another one, but if AP/TACC is not going to be at a comparable level, then that's a potential deal breaker for me.

So, how is it today ? Has there been any improvement since the first few months, and lately ? Note I am not interested / talking about FSD or FSD beta, but only base AP / TACC, on highway and in stop & go traffic. Does it perform as well today without radar, almost as well, better, catastrophically worse ?

We just got a new Model 3. This is our 3rd. TACC is completely unusable on 2 lane roads. Almost got me in a car accident on the first day. Nothing on the previous two radar equipped other than maybe a rare phantom brake going under a overpass etc. The new 2022 slammed brakes on me reliably everytime a truck was coming the opposite direction and hard.

 

[cswinton]

We just got a new Model 3. This is our 3rd. TACC is completely unusable on 2 lane roads. Almost got me in a car accident on the first day. Nothing on the previous two radar equipped other than maybe a rare phantom brake going under a overpass etc. The new 2022 slammed brakes on me reliably everytime a truck was coming the opposite direction and hard.

I just purchased a 2022 MY and had wondered if all of the reports of the TACC issues on 2 lane roads were blown out of proportion - sad to say my experience is the same. Frustrating. I had considered subscribing to the FSD option prior to purchasing, but given my experience with the simple autopilot features on 2 lane roads I'm not even going to consider it now.

 

[SilverString]

I am not clear on a few things: My car has radar but the beta now is touting TeslaVision. Does this mean that when using the beta my radar is disabled or not used? And if I turn onto a highway and beta switches to the highway stack, which looks to me like production FSD, is radar still disabled?

Next, If I disable the beta and choose to use the production FSD, is my radar being used?

 

[Tha_Ape]

I am not clear on a few things: My car has radar but the beta now is touting TeslaVision. Does this mean that when using the beta my radar is disabled or not used? And if I turn onto a highway and beta switches to the highway stack, which looks to me like production FSD, is radar still disabled?

Next, If I disable the beta and choose to use the production FSD, is my radar being used?

if you can set your following distance to "1" and your AP cruise to "90mph" you're using radar

 

[ParkerLewis]

Thanks for the replies.

It seems universally bad (awful) on two lane roads. That is... not good, but this is a rare use case for me.

What about on divided highways when traffic is smooth ? Does it still have issues the radar-equipped models don't have ?

What about on divided highways when traffic is not smooth and there is a lot of stop and go ? Is TACC as smooth as with radar-equipped models ?

 

[fcastrillo86]

Just providing a data point: My wife's 2022 Model Y with FSD (feature purchased, but no beta yet) Autopilot feels smoother than the Model S I commute to work in daily. My Model S is a 2016, so it has radar, induction motors, and recently had the camera upgrade done. The difference is most pronounced in stop and go traffic, where the Model Y seems to make better use of regen braking (thanks permanent magnet motors!), and the Model S has to use physical brakes resulting in hard slowdowns/stops.

 

[rxlawdude]

Thanks for the replies.

It seems universally bad (awful) on two lane roads. That is... not good, but this is a rare use case for me.

What about on divided highways when traffic is smooth ? Does it still have issues the radar-equipped models don't have ?

What about on divided highways when traffic is not smooth and there is a lot of stop and go ? Is TACC as smooth as with radar-equipped models ?

Those divided highways are where you're supposed to use TACC. Doesn't anyone read manuals or visit websites with knowledgeable owners?

 

[WhiteWi]

This days no one reads manual

 

[Tha_Ape]

This days no one reads manual

The tesla manual is so short, too. it's 1/3 the length of my Prius Primes.

I may be weird though, when i get something as complex as a car, I read the manual cover to cover. You learn about all the things YouTubers call "hacks" for you car.

 

[WhiteWi]

The tesla manual is so short, too. it's 1/3 the length of my Prius Primes.

I may be weird though, when i get something as complex as a car, I read the manual cover to cover. You learn about all the things YouTubers call "hacks" for you car.

I must be one of those who almost always try to read manual. So I don’t look dumb when I stare at something and have no clue how it supposed to work. Or maybe I just like reading in general.

 

[Genki]

Those divided highways are where you're supposed to use TACC. Doesn't anyone read manuals or visit websites with knowledgeable owners?

So the new models with vision only should work ok on divided highways? Is phantom braking still an issue if you use the TACC as intended on divided highways only? This would be my main use case for the autopilot.

 

[Daniel in SD]

Those divided highways are where you're supposed to use TACC. Doesn't anyone read manuals or visit websites with knowledgeable owners?

Pretty sure you’re thinking of Autosteer not TACC. It would be pretty dumb to have a car with cruise control that you can’t use on highways…

 

[ParkerLewis]

So the new models with vision only should work ok on divided highways? Is phantom braking still an issue if you use the TACC as intended on divided highways only? This would be my main use case for the autopilot.

That is precisely my question. There has been replies regarding two-lane roads. I've stated that is not really my use case and am interested in info on divided highways.

 

[Dewg]

So the new models with vision only should work ok on divided highways? Is phantom braking still an issue if you use the TACC as intended on divided highways only? This would be my main use case for the autopilot.

Yes, phantom braking still occurs, even on divided highways/freeways. It has gotten much better over time, but still occurs.

 

[cswinton]

So the new models with vision only should work ok on divided highways? Is phantom braking still an issue if you use the TACC as intended on divided highways only? This would be my main use case for the autopilot.

Using my new MY on a two-lane highway with TACC (not autosteer) it happened almost every time a large semi was coming towards me in the oncoming lane. I had to turn it off for that stretch of highway because it was so frequent.

 

[ParkerLewis]

Yes, phantom braking still occurs, even on divided highways/freeways. It has gotten much better over time, but still occurs.

Has it still been improving lately or has it started to feel like a plateau ?

 

[philly4]

Those divided highways are where you're supposed to use TACC. Doesn't anyone read manuals or visit websites with knowledgeable owners?

Source? I've read the manual and never came to this conclusion....based on the manual....I have come to ^ conclusion based on how (poorly) it works. I think Tesla should say divider required in it's current form, but they don't (as far as I can tell).

My experience is it works great when there is a divider and it can be dangerous when there isn't.

I'm only aware of this from my 2021 M3 vision only manual:
"Traffic-Aware Cruise Control is primarily intended for driving on dry, straight roads, such as highways" Highway doesn't imply a divider to me.