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VW will trample tesla
- Thread starter brakar
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Sean Wagner
Member
The European preference for supportive back seats has diverged for aeons from what American manufacturers design. The Model 3 is no different from all the other American cars in that respect.
This really has been a sticky point that drives buyers' decisions here, and if you want to successfully sell your wares to people who have choices, heed your customers' wishes.
It's another reason I think a Model 3 station wagon [call it a shooting brake if you must] would work very well in Europe: apart from being the preferred body style for sedans, the rear seats could be done right-for-the-market.
It's also what I mean when I talk about successful localization. VW has been trying to get it right for a long time in the US, even to the point of creating separate models. Many things go against their grain, but they persist. The Atlas did not come naturally to that specific corporation, but together with the Tiguan is selling like hotcakes.
I'm not following the back seat problem. How is a proper euro back seat different than an americano back seat?
I was not initially impressed either. But now I think it's an interesting group of cars.
The smallest new EV is targeted first at Europe as a Golf replacement. It's less expensive than the model 3, and small for the american market. So its not really intended to get North Americans interested. VW wants to keep their home Golf market secure. Tesla doesn't compete against this car, and probably can't make a model 2 for a number of years.
Not much info yet on the CUV. It is targeted at China and the U.S. It will be a model Y competitor. Everyone has to make a EV CUV.
The Van (bus) is very cool IMO. I think it could herald the return of the minivan for families. People must be getting tired of yet another Rav4. The minivan format has always been the most efficient form factor. Many people with small children today grew up with minivans. IMO this is a very interesting product. VW is mostly talking cargo van, but the passenger version could really catch on.
A shoebox on wheels is still a good idea. And the front passengers in this EV version actually will have a chance at surviving a major accident.
2017 (Full Year) Germany: Best-Selling Car Models - Car Sales Statistics
I was not initially impressed either. But now I think it's an interesting group of cars.
The smallest new EV is targeted first at Europe as a Golf replacement. It's less expensive than the model 3, and small for the american market. So its not really intended to get North Americans interested. VW wants to keep their home Golf market secure. Tesla doesn't compete against this car, and probably can't make a model 2 for a number of years.
Not much info yet on the CUV. It is targeted at China and the U.S. It will be a model Y competitor. Everyone has to make a EV CUV.
The Van (bus) is very cool IMO. I think it could herald the return of the minivan for families. People must be getting tired of yet another Rav4. The minivan format has always been the most efficient form factor. Many people with small children today grew up with minivans. IMO this is a very interesting product. VW is mostly talking cargo van, but the passenger version could really catch on.
A shoebox on wheels is still a good idea. And the front passengers in this EV version actually will have a chance at surviving a major accident.
2017 (Full Year) Germany: Best-Selling Car Models - Car Sales Statistics
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If VW builds a better EV and outsells Tesla in the long run Elon’s plan succeeded.
Something no VW fanboy would ever understand.
Sean Wagner
Member
Proper thigh support that translates into seat height and length. And don't take it from me - the professional nagging goes back way pre-millenium. Just watch what VW does with the ID Neo whenever the production version breaks cover.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
What about Japanese back seats?
What about Chinese back seats?
I've never heard of the back seat problem. I've had 6 different German cars and all of their back seats were unremarkable. Both Porsches were terrible, VWs and Audis were "meh".
Is there a European Standard we could reference?
Sean Wagner
Member
Not that I know of, but the relevant metrics would be horizontal seat depth and height of the derriere from the floor.
These things have been measured in comparos, though.
A tushy subject.
mspohr
Well-Known Member
I'm sure that VW's back seats will crush Tesla. (Not my experience with VW and Audi seats but these are probably build specially for German tushes.)
Sean Wagner
Member
The Model 3 I sat in on Monday is one of the first in Europe, but I didn't have the presence of mind to check the VIN.
I cannot stress enough the importance of anatomically correct tush-ceptacles. This is something OOdles of words will be lOOsened upon in the local press. I'll watch out for this. Seriously.
Elon, pay attention. If anyone is anal enough to take up VW's challenge, you are the one. ChOOse wisely.
I cannot stress enough the importance of anatomically correct tush-ceptacles. This is something OOdles of words will be lOOsened upon in the local press. I'll watch out for this. Seriously.
Elon, pay attention. If anyone is anal enough to take up VW's challenge, you are the one. ChOOse wisely.
gilscales
Banned
Same here, they bought back my 30k car for 25k after I put 100k miles on it, they also sent a check for 1k while everything was being decided by the courts (the 1k check was to agree to arbitration in case of litigation) Bosch sent a check for a few hundred (can't remember how much) as @DarkHelmet has stated it was not out of the goodness of their heart, haha, now that they are forced into the electrify America program it seems it will end up being a money maker for them with the price they are charging for at these stations, with their "forced" jumpstart on most of the other car companies out there it will benefit them many years from now as they will have more BEV models available
This struck me as funny...Tesla is disrupting European car manufacturers, not the other way around. To claim that Tesla needs to follow VAG or BMW on anything is rubbish. I’ve owned plenty of Euro cars and this backseat topic is a red herrring.
Additionally, Tesla being an EV is just a portion of why they are successful. Performance, styling and technology also greatly contribute. I’ve not seen a VW yet that comes remotely close in those areas...even if they have awesome back seats.
Sean Wagner
Member
In the near term, Tesla has single-handedly created a new market in truly desirable mass-produced EVs.
The penny seems to have dropped over at VAG though, and they are determined to at least be out front of their traditional rivals, some of whom have exited or abandoned the world stage. Noone really knows where the industry will be by 2028, but the survivors will get to use their newly honed skills another day.
I'm much less impressed by the Audi Thingama-E-jig and Porsche Taycan née Mission-Emergency* than the cars destined for the new Volkswagen platform. The Neo ID could become iconic and ubiquitous in Europe, and maybe sell well in parts of Asia too. The next Golf, if so much of the action hadn't migrated to crossovers.
[*] The Taycan will serve to truly "legitimize" EVs in Germany. Sad but so.
Which is why the Model Y will probably break all records in all the important global markets. Still, do not underestimate the world's biggest and highly profitable automotive manufacturer and the behemoth global suppliers investing along for the ride.
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Tesla Model 3 im Test - ECARIO
I guarantee the Model 3 and coming VWs will be positively dissected and every last electron minutely and obsessively compared. If the same can be said for the software side of things remains to be seen. The best thing Tesla can do is not slow down. Edit: Or rather, expand sustainably while pushing the envelope.
The penny seems to have dropped over at VAG though, and they are determined to at least be out front of their traditional rivals, some of whom have exited or abandoned the world stage. Noone really knows where the industry will be by 2028, but the survivors will get to use their newly honed skills another day.
I'm much less impressed by the Audi Thingama-E-jig and Porsche Taycan née Mission-Emergency* than the cars destined for the new Volkswagen platform. The Neo ID could become iconic and ubiquitous in Europe, and maybe sell well in parts of Asia too. The next Golf, if so much of the action hadn't migrated to crossovers.
[*] The Taycan will serve to truly "legitimize" EVs in Germany. Sad but so.
Which is why the Model Y will probably break all records in all the important global markets. Still, do not underestimate the world's biggest and highly profitable automotive manufacturer and the behemoth global suppliers investing along for the ride.
Translate this
Tesla Model 3 im Test - ECARIO
I guarantee the Model 3 and coming VWs will be positively dissected and every last electron minutely and obsessively compared. If the same can be said for the software side of things remains to be seen. The best thing Tesla can do is not slow down. Edit: Or rather, expand sustainably while pushing the envelope.
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Neither do Tesla fanbois, because they don't want that aspect of Elon's plan to succeed. They want to see all the other automakers humiliated and bankrupted.
VW needs to adopt Tesla’s charging standard and contribute to the supercharging network! Then they would really have an advantage over the other European manufacturers and some of the US!
gilscales
Banned
I owned a 2013 Passat SEL TDI and it was a great car, I drove it everywhere, My wife had a 2014 535d lease at the time with sports package and all the goodies and when we road tripped we took the VW because to me it was more comfortable, fast forward 5 years and we took delivery of our first BEV in the model 3, loved the car right away and started the VW buyback process for my beloved Passat (VW was offering 25K for a car I payed 30K for with 100,000 miles on it, I had to do it!) so it took 6 weeks for the buyback process to complete and that whole time the Passat sat in the driveway while we both shared the new car, I jumped in my Passat to drive it to the dealership and get my check and WOW! I was shocked that a car I really loved felt like an antique boat anchor chained to a telephone pole! the handling, the comfort, all gone in favor of the new car that just fit like a glove in that short of time.
If VW has a better BEV in 5 years when we get another new car then i'll be the first one to admit it but they better have a charging infrastructure in place at least as good Tesla does now because I've put over 15K on the car in the first 8 months of ownership, I doubt they will do it because they are slow to market demand, however, since they were forced into this one through their Dieselgate debacle then maybe they have the best chance to pull it off.
It's really going the other direction...in europe at least, with Tesla adopting the CCS 2.0 form-factor. I wouldn't be surprised if the same happens in the US eventually, although the transition will probably take a lot longer.
gilscales
Banned
It is because new registrations in Europe are mandated CCS type 2, that is a good way to get the standard adopted though.
IMO, Tesla has the better form factor. It's kinda like Beta Max in the 70's. Which will win out?
gilscales
Banned
We all know that Betamax was technically superior but VHS had a better push in advertising so eventually won out, not sure where the advantage lies after maxing out both standards but at 350kw 800V CCS 2 has the clear advantage now, however, if the V3 SC can push more than 200kw at 400v then it has surpassed the CCS 2 as all you would have to do is double the voltage to get to 400kw plus charging speeds
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