At 32A (the max for the connector that came with the car), you will gain about 30 miles of range per hour. If you instead go with a HPWC and use the max charge rate of 48A (60A breaker), you'll get about 44 mph.
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Wall Connector Installation
- Thread starter DSMLVNV
- Start date
At 32A (the max for the connector that came with the car), you will gain about 30 miles of range per hour. If you instead go with a HPWC and use the max charge rate of 48A (60A breaker), you'll get about 44 mph.
OK, do these pics illustrate that an electrician WILL OR WILL NOT be able to install a 220 or 240 outlet? Bc he told me there needs to be room in the Breaker box. My point is all the black switches are being used currently, but it looks like there are extras spots for more black switches?
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eprosenx
Active Member
We need more details before we can answer this. Can you take a wider out picture of the panel? Often times there look to be spots for more breakers but there are not actual bus positions behind them. This happens when they use the same panel cover for multiple styles of panels.
The most important thing is to get pictures of the stickers on / in the panel that identify exactly what kind of breakers can be installed in which positions. Typically they are on the inside of the door, but sometimes they are inside the panel on the side wall (so panel cover needs to be removed).
Even if all panel spots are full, you may be able to install “tandem” breakers in some positions to free up space.
Please post more pictures! Hopefully the sticker on the door gives us technical specs on your panel, and a picture that includes the main breaker and the entire set of breakers in the panel will tell us how large your service is and how heavily loaded it is.
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If you look at the top right of your box, there's a tandem breaker in there. Almost every circuit breaker currently in use could be swapped with a tandem breaker and you'd get half your spaces back(in reality, there's usually a circuit-count-limit, so you can't put tandem breakers in every spot). An electrician can look at your panel's model number and determine how many tandem breakers are allowed, and where they are allowed to be.
Additionally, there's something very strange going on in that panel... you shouldn't have 120V circuits being controlled by two pole breakers, like combining your garbage disposal and dishwasher. It isn't dangerous, but its not right either. (Hood Vent/Kitchen GFI) is another. If you take those four circuits and place them in two tandem breakers, the other two pole breaker spot becomes free,
I have noticed electricians putting a bridge bar across two breakers when the dishwasher and garbage disposal are sharing a switch box in the kitchen.
You have plenty of capacity and breaker spaces left. its a 225 amp main breaker, and there are 15 breaker spaces up each side, the top 6 of which are allowed to be tandem breakers. I didn't read every tidbit of the panel description, but its fine.
Agree house has the capacity. Where do you want the outlet? You still thinking 14-50, or considering WC?
StealthP3D
Well-Known Member
Yes! I would install a Tesla Wall Connector. Tesla's are becoming more and more mainstream every year and that could help your house sell faster should you ever decide to move. Trying to save $500 now might be penny wise and pound foolish down the road. Think about it, if a Tesla owner is looking at your house and one in the same sub-division without a Tesla WC, they will have a strong preference for your house, everything else being similar.
This is the proper breaker configuration for a multi-wire branch circuit. These two circuits share a neutral, and must both be disconnected if maintenance on either one is required. Each breaker can still interrupt its own circuit without affecting the other. It is installed properly.
If either breaker trips, will it not trip the other breaker? I'm sure that's how a traditional two-pole arrangement works, since you wouldn't want one live hot(lets say L2) if L1 drew too much power and tripped its side of the breaker.
It hadn't occurred to me that they might be sharing a neutral. I guess it saves a bit of copper to do it this way, but I still think that if either side blows it'll take the other one down with it.
eprosenx
Active Member
@DSMLVNV can you confirm it is a 225a main breaker (hard to read in the pictures). Indeed @Sophias_dad that is what it looks like based on the model # of the panel. That is really interesting. I don't ever see that around here. @DSMLVNV can you post pictures of your actual meter? What is interesting is that most meters are either 200a rated, or CL320 (which is basically 400a) rated. I wonder if you really have a 225a service? Or if it really is just a 200a service in a panel capable of handling 225a. Regardless, I suspect you have plenty of available capacity.
You could either do a NEMA 14-50 receptacle (or 6-50 if you did not feel like paying for the neutral wire and wanted to pay the $35 for the Tesla adapter), or a Wall Connector. I personally am a huge Wall Connector fan but it is an individual choice. I ran 3/4in conduit for mine and used 6 awg copper wire and put in a 60a breaker. This lets me charge my M3 using my Wall Connector at 48a (the max charge rate).
Yeah, newer modern code now requires the handles to be tied together on multiwire branch circuits for safety as @MN-MS100D describes above. This was not required previously. I am not 100% clear though on the details since there are a couple ways to accomplish this. I think the primary requirement is that when you turn one circuit off, it forces you to turn off the adjoining circuit. This is different from when a circuit trips in a 240v circuit. In that case, it is required to "common trip" the other live power leg even if the handle is held in the on position. So 240v breakers have internal mechanisms to force trip the other power leg when either trips. This is different from just adding a handle tie to two adjacent 120v breakers. So I think either method is allowed for multi-wire branch circuits. Most folks just use 240v breakers since they are cheap and readily available.
I downloaded and zoomed in on the picture to see that its 225. The text on the label says that its meter socket is only rated to 225, and the panel is allowed to have a 225(200 continuous).
And for all these years I thought that handle-tied circuits will both go down together if either side trips.
I did read up on the rules, and it seems that the common neutral is allowed but the requirement for handle tying such paired circuits is newish. It makes sense, because you don't want to accidentally put both hots on the same leg of the main if you are rearranging circuits to cram another 240 volt circuit into your panel for your EV. Sure... you could trace every red wire you are moving to the cable its entering, but will you think to do that? I certainly will from now on.
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Here's a very nice explanation of multiwire branch circuits.
Multiwire Branch Electrical Circuits and Split-Wired Receptacles - Electrical Wiring Safety Requirements
Multiwire Branch Electrical Circuits and Split-Wired Receptacles - Electrical Wiring Safety Requirements
Glamisduner
Active Member
You could also run oversize wire like I did in case you get a HPWC in the future. I had my electrician run 4awg to my 14-50. I just had to cap off a wire which I installed the HPWC (only needs 3 wires). If you go this route it is best to install the 14-50 outside of the wall with 4awg in conduit, planning for a top entry HPWC install in the future, otherwise it may end up much more difficult install later as I found out! If your using romex a rear entry would be possible later, so it could work, but it's lower rated wire.
If you get the HPWC you can run 3awg to max it out, but it won't matter for the model 3, since 4awg isn't even maxed out @ 48 amps. With 4awg THHN you can upgrade up to an 80amp breaker, with 3awg I believe you can do a 100 amp breaker (double check this one). I could have run 3 awg but not sure it would have connected well to my 14-50, and I also would have needed larger than 1" conduit for a 4 wire run which makes changing between a 14-50 and HPWC more difficuly. That was my reasoning for 4awg.
I like the suggestion to instead install a 6-50 for now if you don't want to spend the $500 on the HPWC. Maybe then you could run 3 wire 3awg in 1" conduit and max out the HPWC (Double check both of these I am not an electrician), but I'm not sure if a 6-50 is as common as a 14-50 for other uses. The 14-50 is the most flexible outlet I think which is why many people go with that, but it depends what your planning for the future. It does not restrict you to a tesla as your next EV, and up to 40 amps charging is enough for most people (max continuous out of a 14-50). The adapter the car comes with is limited to 32 amps instead of 40 but the older EVSE for the S/X suport 40 amps without using a HPWC, or that new fangled HPWC with the pigtail that limits you to 40 as well (I don't understand the advantage to it over the portable S/X EVSEs unless it allows you to chain or convert to a regular HPWC at a later date?). Maybe it just looks cooler?
If you want the fastest charging and are not comfortable doing an electrical work yourself just the the HPWC and be done with it. But make sure your electrician runs the largest wire so that it might be more useful for future teslas
BTW I was fine using the 32amp EVSE the car comes with for my commute (84-100 mile per day), but it's nice to have it now as a backup!
Thanks, I already knew the theory and hazards once I heard they were a thing.. I still wouldn't put them in myself(and I'd specifically request new work I was commissioning to avoid them), but at least I understand them well enough to not burn a house down when I see them. While they are not complex in the least, its worth the extra run of 12-2 just to keep it simple.
Probably all good.
What does it say on the screen for volts and amps?
The 3 charges pretty quick. Very efficient.
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