Wall connector or 14-50 socket

[PianoAl]

Why? I see people ask this a lot, and I don't see why people think that is necessary. Installing is a big job; removing it really isn't. It's always easier to take something apart than to put it together. So it will still be very easy to shut off the breaker and disconnect and remove it whenever you are ready to move. And then all of your time using it will be with it installed properly, according to the recommended instructions, and with less loose connection points (safer).

I know nothing about real estate, but it could be that you can't show your house with any permanent electrical wiring that won't be included in the eventual sale. So if it takes months to sell your house ...

Perhaps a "THIS IS NOT INCLUDED" post-it note would be enough?

Sorry if this is misinformation.

 

[brkaus]

I know nothing about real estate, but it could be that you can't show your house with any permanent electrical wiring that won't be included in the eventual sale. So if it takes months to sell your house ...

Perhaps a "THIS IS NOT INCLUDED" post-it note would be enough?

Sorry if this is misinformation.

It is possible to exclude semi-permanent items from sale with proper signage & notice.

In three years technology might change and you might want a new WC! And compared to the cost of the house $500 isn't a big deal, might make the sale for someone with an EV. You could always list it as available for ~ $300 extra.

 

[tps5352]

...the receptacle will only have about 300 connection cycles before requiring replacement (and it's a pain to unplug the UMC frequently). At ten connection cycles that's around a 30 year life...

What type of receptacle do you use?

Are the heavy-duty Hubbell and Bryant receptacles also subject to this 300 connection cycle rule, do you think? I could see that a Leviton would wear out quickly, but I wonder about the big ones.

How did you arrive at 300? That (relatively small) number is kind of alarming.

It is, of course, true I guess that most 240-volt
receptacles see an appliance (e.g., dryer or range) plugged in for an extended period and hardly ever unplugged.

Thanks.

 

[jerry33]

What type of receptacle do you use?

Are the heavy-duty Hubbell and Bryant receptacles also subject to this 300 connection cycle rule, do you think? I could see that a Leviton would wear out quickly, but I wonder about the big ones.

How did you arrive at 300? Are you an engineer in this business?

Thanks.

There are heavy duty ones that have much higher cycle life, but they're not the kind typically installed (since most people are after the lowest price).
The 300 is on the spec sheets (or was when I purchased).

 

[drtimhill]

I was planning on getting the wall connector installed but now I'm rethinking if that is necessary as its 500 dollars more. Do most just have a 14-50 socket installed or do you get the wall connector? Model 3 Performance.

As others have noted, the real problem is getting hold of the 14-50 adapter. For mysterious reasons, it's always listed as Out of Stock on the Tesla store. I managed to get an order in a month ago when it was briefly listed as in stock, but apart from getting a tracking number for shipping, have yet to actually get the thing.

 

[Feathermerchan]

Since Tesla and no other EV I know of uses the neutral wire, why run one? I have installed two circuits for charging both with a NEMA 6-50. That is two hot wires and a ground. Costs less for wire and saves copper. I bought two used Gen1 UMC's so I can charge my car at up to 40A and I just leave them plugged in. I take the factory UMC with me when I travel.

 

[tps5352]

...real problem is getting hold of the 14-50 adapter.

True. Annoying.

For new readers, there are a few ways to achieve 14-50 connectivity via new items purchased at the Tesla website:

• Purchase the optional individual plug adapter ($35) for the Gen 2 Mobile Connector (that comes in the car)

• In the bundled plug collection (7 plugs plus case) ($220)

• As a 1-piece Corded Mobile Connector ($520)

• Purchase optional individual plug adapter ($45) if you already have a Gen 1 Universal Mobile Connector

As far as I know, all are “Sold Out” except the Gen 1 plug adapter.

EBay prices can be high. I recommend checking your local Craig’s List.

 

[scooter62]

More expensive than the OEM, but works fine and in stock:
NEMA 14-50 Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3 Gen 2 – EVSE Adapters

 

[drtimhill]

True. Annoying.

For new readers, there are a few ways to achieve 14-50 connectivity via new items purchased at the Tesla website:

• Purchase the optional individual plug adapter ($35) for the Gen 2 Mobile Connector (that comes in the car)

• In the bundled plug collection (7 plugs plus case) ($220)

• As a 1-piece Corded Mobile Connector ($520)

• Purchase optional individual plug adapter ($45) if you already have a Gen 1 Universal Mobile Connector

As far as I know, all are “Sold Out” except the Gen 1 plug adapter.

EBay prices can be high. I recommend checking your local Craig’s List.

I'm assuming that EBay'ers are buying up all the adapters they can find and re-selling them, which sucks. Tesla should have some way to prioritize legitimate car owners on the storefront to stop this scamming. Or flood the market to destroy the incentive to do this kind of nonsense.

 

[Rocky_H]

I know nothing about real estate, but it could be that you can't show your house with any permanent electrical wiring that won't be included in the eventual sale. So if it takes months to sell your house ...

I'm sure there is no restriction on how you show the house.

It is possible to exclude semi-permanent items from sale with proper signage & notice.

Yes, I think there are various state regulations that are pretty similar about what is expected to be included/excluded with the sale of a house, and if you want to differ from that standard expectation, you will need to explicitly list it in the sale contract.

 

[Jones0812]

Back in December 2019 I worked up this hypothetical cost breakdown (for a post on the Inside EVs Forum site), comparing NEMA 14-50 versus Tesla Wall Connector installations:
View attachment 513126

(Note: This already dated analysis assumed a 100-amp Gen 2 wall connector. The Gen 3 wall connector,
I believe, requires a maximum 60 amp circuit, with correspondingly lighter-gauge, less expensive house wire.)​

Some dollar figures are just crude estimates, and we can quibble over precise amounts. (For example, in Setup Number 2, Step 2 perhaps #3 wire could serve for the 100-amp WC circuit, saving $50 or $100? Or for Setup Number 1, Step 4 a "Gen 2 Mobile Connector Bundle" and 14-50 adapter-plug [$275 + $35] could be used instead of the implied "Corded Mobile Connector" [$520], saving $210. And professional installation fees will vary widely from region-to-region and from home-to-home.)

But the point is, if you closely examine all the potential costs associated with the two types of installations, the seemingly much cheaper 14-50 installation can still end up being within about the same order of magnitude, depending on several factors.

Those factors include:

• Whether the homeowner can (safely) perform his/her own house wire and receptacle installation. (Not recommended.)
• Whether a NEMA 14-50 receptacle will be installed outdoors.
  
• Whether the car operator will rely on only the single mobile connector cable supplied with the car, or whether a second dedicated Tesla charging cable will be purchased (at an additional $300-$500).
• Whether all-new, retail equipment will be used or whether good used, new-old-stock, or surplus supplies can be procured. (For example, having the time I found new, surplus house wire; a new Hubbell receptacle; a new-old-stock GFI circuit breaker; and various new/used Tesla charging accessories on eBay and Craig's List, saving hundreds of dollars. But these searches took time and came with learning curves and false starts--e.g., at first installing a cheap Leviton receptacle). Buying retail and using professional installation may be more expensive; but it may be generally safer, quicker, and more fool-proof.

Each electric-car charging installation can be different. Owners should carefully consider a range of factors before determining what is best for them.

Does the wall connector not need a GFIC if hard wired?

 

[brkaus]

Does the wall connector not need a GFIC if hard wired?

Correct. The wall connector has ground fault circuitry built in. No additional ground fault breaker required.

 

[tps5352]

Correct. The wall connector has ground fault circuitry built in. No additional ground fault breaker required.

Plus, if installed correctly the WC by its very nature leaves no "exposed circuitry" or live, exposed contacts, and has nothing to plug in or pull out at the house end. So the weather-resistant and fully enclosed WC appears to me to be safer, especially for outdoor, damp conditions.

I don't remember if a NEMA 14-50 receptacle (used for 240-volt circuits) now always requires a (50-amp) GFI breaker, or only when it is installed outdoors? I assume the former.

There have been many pertinent discussions on this and similar webpage forums.

 

[brkaus]

@tps5352 pretty sure it’s wet location, which includes a garage. But only if the locality has adopted the latest code.

 

[Rocky_H]

Does the wall connector not need a GFIC if hard wired?

That's correct.

Correct. The wall connector has ground fault circuitry built in. No additional ground fault breaker required.

That's not really the reason why, though. The mobile connector cord also has ground fault circuitry built in. So that's not a difference between the two. But the GFCI inside the electronics box of the mobile connector can only protect what is downstream of that box. It can't really do anything if someone is holding the plug and standing in a puddle of water and pushes it into the outlet and starts getting electrocuted at the prongs of the plug. It's before the electronics box, so it can't do anything about that.

Plus, if installed correctly the WC by its very nature leaves no "exposed circuitry" or live, exposed contacts, and has nothing to plug in or pull out at the house end. So the weather-resistant and fully enclosed WC appears to me to be safer, especially for outdoor, damp conditions.

Yes, that's the real reason. A hard wired wall connector doesn't have any place a person could touch wiring before the GFCI inside it.

I don't remember if a NEMA 14-50 receptacle (used for 240-volt circuits) now always requires a (50-amp) GFI breaker, or only when it is installed outdoors? I assume the former.

There have been many pertinent discussions on this and similar webpage forums.

@tps5352 pretty sure it’s wet location, which includes a garage. But only if the locality has adopted the latest code.

I can't quite remember what the conditions were on the older NEC, like 2014 version. In the outdoor wet locations, the 120V outlets always had to have it, but I think for some reason the 240V outlets like 14-50 didn't have to for some reason.
Anyway, because of the whole 625 section all about electric vehicle charging that was a big deal in the 2017 version of NEC, it's not a question of dry or wet locations anymore. It says uncompromisingly that any outlet being installed for the purpose of electric car charging must have a GFCI breaker. No conditions, no exceptions. But of course anything based on people's "intentions" can be fudged, and I'm sure lots of people do. "Oh, this is for my cousin's RV who might come to visit me. Certainly never for EV charging!" *eyeroll*

 

[MrMassTransit]

I'm assuming that EBay'ers are buying up all the adapters they can find and re-selling them, which sucks. Tesla should have some way to prioritize legitimate car owners on the storefront to stop this scamming. Or flood the market to destroy the incentive to do this kind of nonsense.

The solution is far simpler. Tesla simply needs to produce enough to keep them in stock (which I suppose could be "flooding the market"). The resellers are just exploiting Tesla's inability to regularly keep items in stock. I would not fault them for the constant out of stock conditions - Tesla can't keep many other items in stock. I highly doubt that people are buying the $450 CHaDeMo adapter for resale (and demand can't be that high), but it regularly fluctuates in and out of stock. Same with HPWCs, which tend to fluctuate.

If no one was purchasing these for resale, I have zero confidence that Tesla would be able to keep them in stock. That's ultimately the issue that needs to be solved. Tesla used to be able to produce one of these for every car sold - they certainly have the production capacity.

 

[tps5352]

The solution is far simpler. Tesla simply needs to produce enough to keep them in stock

Agreed. I assume that Tesla sub-contracts this work out to a supplier? Or do you think they build all their charging accessories themselves somewhere (e.g., Fremont, CA, USA)?

I highly doubt that people are buying the $450 CHaDeMo adapter for resale

Hmm. I'm not sure that's completely true. I think at least some people are doing exactly that. For example, check out this online sale:

BRAND NEW USA TESLA CHAdeMO ADAPTER (1036392-10-D) JUST BOUGHT SEALED | eBay

• The online sale started just recently (at the end of February, 2020) and says they were "JUST BOUGHT" from Tesla.
  
• After a relatively lengthy "drought" Tesla only just recently (2/25/20) offered some more CHAdeMO adapters for sale (for just a few hours).
  
  
• The seller has two CHAdeMO adapters for sale.
• Tesla only allows two adapters to be sold per online transaction.
  
  
• The new price from Tesla is $450 (w/free shipping).
• The online sale asking price is $700.
  
  
• Taken all together, coincidence? I don't think so.

I may be wrong, but I would say that the (circumstantial) evidence is pretty strong that this seller bought two CHAdeMO adapters directly from Tesla specifically and intentionally in order to make a sizable profit online once Tesla was "Sold Out" again. And Tesla was only too happy to oblige (by selling out almost immediately.) So one could surmise that two people who may have wanted or needed these adapters are out of luck (at the retail price, at least). Who knows whether this hypothetical pair will be desperate enough to fork over $700? (I hope not.)

and demand can't be that high

Now I have no data, so what follows is just speculation. But let's assume there are a few categories of CHAdeMO adapter owners:

1. People who live in outlying supercharger deserts (areas without SCs), but where there are aftermarket CHAdeMO charging facilities.
2. People in well-traveled (more SC-rich) areas who nonetheless have a touch of "range anxiety" and who otherwise just feel better having all the adapters in the frunk, so to speak.
3. People who just happen to end up with one (e.g., as a gift).

What do you think? At $450 (or more) maybe one percent or less of Tesla drivers have a CHAdeMO adapter? How many would that be? (More now, with Model 3 sales, I guess.)

So I would agree that demand is probably not that high, But as long as demand is not zero and supplies are correspondingly low, you still have a problem, even though it is a smaller problem than if demand is higher (as it probably is for, say, Gen 2 NEMA 14-50 adapters).

I just hate to think that people who really need these (CHAdeMO) things can't get them (at a fair price) because of gougers.

If no one was purchasing these <14-50 adapters> for resale, I have zero confidence that Tesla would be able to keep them in stock. That's ultimately the issue that needs to be solved. Tesla used to be able to produce one of these for every car sold - they certainly have the production capacity.

​

I am not sure I completely follow. But as to Gen 2 NEMA 14-50 adapters, I believe that certain nefarious people are doing the same thing--i.e., buying up 14-50 adapters for anticipated profitable resale online. Just look at some of the asking prices online today (3/1/20) for new adapters (an otherwise $35 item from Tesla):

• $299.95
• $175
• $149
• $99

and so forth. I would guess that at least some of these sales are (like the CHAdeMO example, above) pre-planned. Product is bought up on Tesla and offered for much higher prices when the item is "Sold Out," as it is now.

But what you are saying is very true. Tesla used to supply one (14-50 adapter) with every Model S and X, I believe. That stopped (2017?), probably to save money (say a saving of, what, $20 per car for Tesla?--every little bit helps). But also because Tesla wanted to encourage people charging at home to please use a Tesla wall connector--probably for several reasons. To make money, I assume, on a $500 item, for sure. But also to help ensure that customers would be installing and charging at home properly and safely. (Something that Tesla had less control over when all it offered was a connector cable and a NEMA 14-50 adapter.) Allowing customers to electrocute themselves or burn down the garage are not particularly helpful elements for a successful business model. Plus, aftermarket companies were starting to make money selling Tesla drivers wall connectors. The nerve!

So, yes, Tesla could do everyone (except the gougers) a favor by simply making enough charging accessories to meet demand, whether that demand is relatively small or relative large. These frequent outages are a little perplexing (to me, being still naive to the ways of Tesla). Could a new charging adapter be on the horizon...?

 

[MrMassTransit]

Hmm. I'm not sure that's completely true. I think at least some people are doing exactly that. For example, check out this online sale:

I stand corrected! I checked eBay completed item listings and there's been about half a dozen sold by other sellers for $100-$200 above MSRP. So I'll concede this is an issue, albeit one that could be solved by more reliable supply.

 

[kkillebrew]

True. Annoying.

For new readers, there are a few ways to achieve 14-50 connectivity via new items purchased at the Tesla website:

• Purchase the optional individual plug adapter ($35) for the Gen 2 Mobile Connector (that comes in the car)

• In the bundled plug collection (7 plugs plus case) ($220)

• As a 1-piece Corded Mobile Connector ($520)

• Purchase optional individual plug adapter ($45) if you already have a Gen 1 Universal Mobile Connector

As far as I know, all are “Sold Out” except the Gen 1 plug adapter.

EBay prices can be high. I recommend checking your local Craig’s List.

OR install a NEMA 6-50R those adapters are almost always in stock at Tesla, and there should be no cost difference to install it. This is a standard plug at many RV parks and rest areas and offers a rarely discussed way to charge in a pinch.

 

[davewill]

I know nothing about real estate, but it could be that you can't show your house with any permanent electrical wiring that won't be included in the eventual sale. So if it takes months to sell your house ...

Perhaps a "THIS IS NOT INCLUDED" post-it note would be enough?

Sorry if this is misinformation.

If leaving behind a $500 Wall Connector will make the sale, no problem with that.