What wasn't said.

[Joules Verne]

Hmmm, brings up something to ponder. Most of the taxes on gas go to pay for road construction & maintenance. Electric cars don't pay that tax. At some point in the future the quantity of electric cars on the road will grow and the tax revenue from gas sales will decrease, yet roads still need to be built and maintained. I foresee some sort of tax on electricity when used to power electric cars, or some sort of yearly tax based on mileage for each electric car - maybe assessed when you get your yearly inspection? Nobody like taxes, but they are important to pay for common use things like roads.

Don't worry Gov will find a way to make-up the difference.

Some states have already increased the Excise tax for EVs for this very reason.

 

[Ugliest1]

Tesla has a long history of (depending on your perspective) imprecise to deceptive communications.

Reminds me of the old quote "language is good -- but it's ambiguous". And that's BEFORE the marketing people get involved. Or maybe it should be "Don't listen to what I SAY! Listen to what I MEAN!".

IMHO those who put Tesla in the "bait and switch" and "deceptive advertising" columns are overly critical. If you look at darned near all advertising, or product web pages from any company, you can find areas where once you've purchased the product, you realize that the words on the page are not quite what the product delivers (or, perhaps just the actual product version you bought since you neglected to add this or that option). This is no different than most resumes -- "It's only when you're creating your resume that you become closest to God".

 

[ecarfan]

In one of the ride videos, the engineer said there would be a higher battery option. I think it's pretty much a given that there will be 2 battery options - and that the bigger battery will ship first. they just haven't released specifics yet. I think the focus of this event was that the Model 3 is a 35K car - with the smaller battery.

Do you have a link to that video with the test driver making that statement? I'm not disagreeing with you, just want to see that video. I've been searching YouTube for 3 test drive videos and haven't heard that statement yet. I have always assumed that would be the case but didn't hear Elon mention it. I have a reservation down for the 3 but definitely want much more than the minimum promised range of 215 EPA. Will be getting the Dual Motor option and am hoping for a range of at least 260.

 

[ecarfan]

That is an opinion, that runs counter to available information. The PR department themselves clarified that they are not announcing the supercharger access details.

Not once did Elon say "Free" in relation to Supercharging.

Free is a big deal, and if they knew it was going to be free, they would be touting "FREE".

Best case they are still deciding if it will be free. Worse case they already decided it won't be free.

Yes, I was obviously stating my opinion. We have so few actual facts about the Model 3 that most of what gets said about the car is opinion. I was basing my opinion on Tesla's history with Supercharging the S and X, how Tesla clearly considers Supercharging an essential part of the EV experience, and rightly so.

Also obviously, the S and X are "premium" priced cars and the 3 is not. All we have now is Tesla saying all Model 3's built will have "supercharging capability". Those two words can be interpreted in a variety of ways. I interpret them to mean that the 3 will be like the S and the X in regards to Supercharging. I base that on the acknowledgement by Tesla that the cost of building and supporting the Supercharger network is a relatively minor line item in operating expenses. Of course so far Tesla is not producing high numbers of cars, and the 3 will be potentially an order of magnitude increase in volume, at a lower margin. But high volume also produces high revenue.

It is possible that Tesla will set up a fee system for Model 3 Supercharging. It is also possible that there will be a Model 3 option for a one time charge for "free for life" Supercharging or a standard "pay as you go" system for Supercharging. We won't know the answer for well over a year.

 

[Bimbels]

Do you have a link to that video with the test driver making that statement? I'm not disagreeing with you, just want to see that video. I've been searching YouTube for 3 test drive videos and haven't heard that statement yet. I have always assumed that would be the case but didn't hear Elon mention it. I have a reservation down for the 3 but definitely want much more than the minimum promised range of 215 EPA. Will be getting the Dual Motor option and am hoping for a range of at least 260.

It was in one of these.
Tesla Model 3 video roundup: first drives, event and more [Videos]

 

[vinnie97]

I hit dislike not because I thought it wouldn't be wonderful to have it included, but because I thought asking for it is ridiculous. Here Tesla is trying to build an EV that's so far beyond the historical price/capability ratio it border on insane, and you're saying you expect them to include the very best technology they have in the most basic entry level version for free.

Can you name a single $35k car that has adaptive cruise control as standard equipment?

I admit that I can't. As a compromise, I would like the option of having the feature without the full AP suite, however, for a lower additional cost.

I don't know how you're construing adaptive cruise as a safety feature - unless it's to prevent you from running over another car while you're not paying attention? In that case, adaptive cruise would only help if you happened to be using it at the time.

Oh, I admit it's definitely a stretch to categorize it as a safety feature. Of course emergency breaking, as you already described, will also prevent a collision (at least on the front end).

I had disliked this originally for a few reasons : what you said earlier was not on topic with what we were already discussing;
I don't like stupid comparisons with other cars (My *insert car name* has *insert feature* for *insert price* that's not available on Tesla ! -> But does your other car have 200+ miles EV range, has the most advanced autopilot, etc ? If you want to compare, compare the whole car, or at least with a comparable car.)
Also, a quick search would have shown you that TACC is not standard on any other car from Tesla, all of them costing at least twice as much as the 3.

Now if you approach it from an other angle (is TACC a safety feature rather than convenience) than I'm totally ok with that. But I feel you should have explained it in your first post. ;-) (and I agree I am also at fault in our communication here… I criticise you for your lack of detail in your explanation when my response is a simple 'dislike'.)

Now, to answer you question, I do not think TACC is a safety feature. I mean, all autopilot features can be considered as safety (in that they would lower the accident rate for drivers using them correctly) but you have to draw the line somewhere…
I think that features you have to explicitly enable yourself each time you want them are convenience, and that features always watching you in the background are safety.

Thanks for your exposition. My own ignorance surrounding just how high-end that feature is helps to explain my original flippant post. I just found an older article showing more affordable vehicles with the option, but they are also higher end packages for those specific vehicles (like the Mazda6 and the aforementioned Ford Fusion).

 

[MP3Mike]

The other things that weren't said in the presentation, mentioned during the rides :

• Trunk design is still being worked on

Do you have a link to that video, as I haven't heard that in any of the ones I watched. One of them did say that there would be more room in the production trunk because there is currently prototype hardware in the trunk. But he didn't say that the design of the trunk would be changing.

 

[Ulmo]

I've also seen articles state that Autopilot will be included in the base price, referencing auto-steer and auto lane change.

Sounds wrong.

 

[Tam]

I hope adaptive cruise control is considered basic at $35k.

Most likely it'll be just like the S and the X, if you don't pay for Autopilot, you don't get TACC Traffic Aware Cruise Control, but you still get basic cruise control with no extra charge.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Do you have a link to that video, as I haven't heard that in any of the ones I watched. One of them did say that there would be more room in the production trunk because there is currently prototype hardware in the trunk. But he didn't say that the design of the trunk would be changing.

I want to see a link to that video too. The only mention I have seen was that it was said there would be more room inside the trunk because of some prototype hardware in the way, but no talk about the design changing.

 

[alexeiw123]

I'm pretty sure this hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet:
Elon didn't mention whether the Model 3 will be always connected or not like the Model S/X is.

In the test drive videos, you could make out 'LTE' in the upper right hand of the screen. Whether a sim card is included in every model, or as an option, remains to be seen.

 

[GoTslaGo]

I suspect that connectivity will be included as Tesla's OTA update system is a major draw for many owners. Many model 3 buyers and owners will be repeat customers (roadster, S and X) who expect OTA.

Newer buyers IMHO will be younger, more tech savvy folks who will expect OTA. OTA updates differentiate Tesla from all the other legacy carmakers out there. I doubt Tesla will stop providing this level of connectivity with the 3.

 

[alexeiw123]

OTA updates differentiate Tesla from all the other legacy carmakers out there. I doubt Tesla will stop providing this level of connectivity with the 3.

I do expect it to be there too. It was interesting that it wasn't mentioned though. OTA updates could still be achieved with Wi-Fi. I really don't know what Tesla's data bill is for all the mobile plans in cars, but when the car gets cheaper, you have to strip out the extras. Maybe the data will need to be paid for?

 

[GoTslaGo]

Good point. I know here in the States they have partnered with ATT for LTE. I do not know how long the LTE is available for the Model Ss and Xs. Guessing included for at least 4 years, like the internet radio.

The best group to ask would be some of the early adopters with 2012 models and CPO buyers (those with LTE and some with 3G). Are they now paying for their cellular access?

 

[Saghost]

I'm pretty sure this hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet:
Elon didn't mention whether the Model 3 will be always connected or not like the Model S/X is.

In the test drive videos, you could make out 'LTE' in the upper right hand of the screen. Whether a sim card is included in every model, or as an option, remains to be seen.

You're right, they didn't mention it.

Having said that, I don't think there's any real possibility it won't be. So much of Tesla's strategy and experience depends on it - everything from software update to Google Maps in the center console, and of course the remote app on the phone.

Keep in mind, Tesla also gets some very useful fleet trend information back from it.

 

[Chuq]

Having said that, I don't think there's any real possibility it won't be.

Agree with this. I expect some free extras like Spotify streaming will not be included, but the OTA updates would be vital. It is feasible that this could be done via a wifi connection to the owners home broadband, but that may leave Tesla trying to diagnose issues with wifi connections, something they would want to keep away from.

 

[bombfrog]

Sorry to jump on this thread, but I just joined the forum to ask some questions before putting down a deposit. Unless I'm mistaken, new forum members aren't allowed to start threads on this forum. Does anybody know how I go about getting the required privileges to start my own thread?

 

[GoTslaGo]

Sorry to jump on this thread, but I just joined the forum to ask some questions before putting down a deposit. Unless I'm mistaken, new forum members aren't allowed to start threads on this forum. Does anybody know how I go about getting the required privileges to start my own thread?

I think you have to have a minimum amount of posts. Just read more, reply more and eventually you'll get the minimum (I do not recall what it is) and you'll be able to start threads, add avatars, etc... Have fun!

 

[alexeiw123]

You're right, they didn't mention it.

So much of Tesla's strategy and experience depends on it - everything from software update to Google Maps in the center console, and of course the remote app on the phone.

Keep in mind, Tesla also gets some very useful fleet trend information back from it.

I agree completely. It's a huge appeal the Tesla has over the competition, EV benefits aside.

I do find myself wondering what the alternatives could be if the base model had no data. Android Auto/Car Play for navigation? It would work but it's far less integrated.

I think it's (mobile data) totally unlikely to be dropped - just sticking to that 'what wasn't said'. Maybe something for Elon's next impromptu twitter AMA haha.

 

[israndy]

I am pretty sure they didn't say anything about the ability to flat tow. I would love to take this car with me everywhere and then have 200 miles around where I stop the RV to tour. Then plug into the 50 amp circuit and charge up overnight and back on the road again. I do have an electric motorcycle strapped to the back that I use in a similar way, but it's more like 40 miles on a charge.

I am pretty sure all electric cars cannot be towed all 4 wheels down, but I don't understand why they are built that way. At least make an easy disconnect so the wheels can spin free. I currently tow my 2000 Honda Insight and it's great, but growing old.

-Randy