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Whats in those Superchargers

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by W0QR, Jul 21, 2017.

  1. W0QR

    W0QR Member

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    I suppose there are a lot of restrictions on disclosing what's in Superchargers. What do they use? Triacs, SCRs, Thyratrons? I expect no one would have a diagram..even block?
    No, I don't want to build one. I just want to know how they handle all that power. Of course start with a transformer, then rectify? Just diodes?
    Really big cable that's for sure. Speculation?
     
  2. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Not really. It's simple and cheap that others can duplicate if they want to.

    In your older Model S, you can have one onboard charger at 10kW.

    And you can have 2 of them for 20kW.

    If there's a way to fit 12 of them in your car, then you got a Tesla Supercharger on wheels at 120kW.

    So instead of stacking them into your car, Tesla stacks them up in a cabinet outside of your car.

    That's Tesla Supercharger supplying you 120kW.
     
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  3. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    So you can't stack 12 10kW-chargers in your car? Stack them in a cabinet outside of your car as shown by Electrek.co on the left of the picture below, then route those juicy 120 kW to a pair of stalls.

    Voila! You got your Tesla Supercharger!



    [​IMG]



    Why diagram when you can see real picture? Can you count 12 in the cabinet below:

    [​IMG]


    The diagram from GreenCarReports.com below shows how utility hooks up to the cabinet from the left of the picture:

    [​IMG]

    Remember, Tesla promotes EV, not suppressing the progress, as evidenced by its open patent policy.
     
  4. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    Owners have been opening up their onboard chargers so there is no secrete. It's on youtube!

     
  5. Fiver

    Fiver Member

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    They upped them to 13 or 14 I believe now to hit the 135kW limit of current superchargers. I wonder if they will ever bump up to the newer chargers used in the current version of the S & X.
     
  6. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    I am not sure but I think 120 and 135 kW are due to the different phases in the US and Europe.

    Europe uses 230V, 16A, 3 phases so each onboard charger is 11kW.

    When you stack 12 x 11kW, you got 132 and round up to 135kW for margin of error and limitation.

    Current version capability can be 145kW but the website still caps it at 120kW.

    For the next version, the tweet seems to say that it will surpass 350kW.

    My guess for the requirement for higher charging rate:

    1) new cell chemistry and battery pack architecture to cope with the increased rate.
    2) Upgrade hardware to current stations: liquid cooled cables...
     
  7. Stirfelt

    Stirfelt Member

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    Where is a good site for a layman to learn more about Tesla charging?
    I hold a high reservation number, so I have time to learn .....
    but my questions are:
    I presume it has a negative impact on the battery longevity if you charge repeatedly at the fastest level?
    I presume it has a negative impact on the battery if you charge to 100%?

    Can you program your charging (at a supercharger pedestal) to charge slower, and not charge to 100%?
    Slow, overnight charging at home has advantages?

    I know my 2010 Prius kept the battery between 20% and 80% and in 6 years I was unable to detect any degradation.

    Finally, I presume the M3 will be able to charge at a supercharger, but for a cost?
     
  8. Tam

    Tam Active Member

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    For generic:

    How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries - Battery University

    Traditionally, slow charge, trickle charge is good because it does not raise the temperature much.

    However, temperature is no longer a problem when you have a good cooling system.

    Prolonged state of 100% or 0% would permanently change your cell chemistry which lead to its early demise.

    You can go to your display screen and limit your maximum fill up to any level you want:

    As shown by CarMagazine.co.uk:

    [​IMG]

    Old school thought: trickle/slow charges produces little heat but today we got good cooling system.

    Yes. That is the plan as disclosed on the web:

    Compare Model S and Model 3 | Tesla
     
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  9. Fiver

    Fiver Member

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    Yea, that's what I meant.. 120 per car (Realistically you see 115-116 briefly but then it drops fast). 145 split between both pedestals, so there is more overhead left over for whoever has to plug in second.
     
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  10. ZeApelido

    ZeApelido Member

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    Yup, have a friend who works on this for Tesla, they just stack a bunch of onboard chargers.
     
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  11. PaulS

    PaulS Member

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    How do Superchargers know how to bill owners for electricity or not?... ie. how does a Supercharger detect if your car/account has Supercharging-for-life or not, since currently we don't have to "check in" at Superchargers to indicate who we are? Does the Supercharger use WiFi or BT or something else to talk to the car behind the scenes to figure out "who" it is?
     
  12. Fiver

    Fiver Member

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    The car is internet connected. It detects being plugged in and takes appropriate actions based on it's settings. (Unlimited, bill, etc)
     
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  13. PaulS

    PaulS Member

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    That makes complete sense. So the Superchargers themselves don't have to know at all about the cars plugging in to them. The car plugs in, comms with servers in Freemont and ba-da-bing billing triggered as required. Thanks.
     
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  14. dgpcolorado

    dgpcolorado high altitude member

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    Pretty much. I believe that Supercharging will still work even if the car doesn't have a data connection to Tesla (no cell signal). The car just logs the session and uploads the info when it does get connected again. The car also tells the Supercharger whether or not Supercharging is enabled (some Model S cars don't have Supercharging enabled).
     
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