What's included in the non-Premium Package?

[TT97]

M3 is heavier than Camry by 600-500 lbs depending on configuration

MS is heavier than an A5 by 1 ton

Plus the higher torque and acceleration absolutely wears your “primary” wheels faster.

The MS weighs 1500 lbs less than an F250. What is the point you are making comparing unrelated cars?

The M3 weighs within 100 lbs of a BMW 340, MB C43, or Audi S4

The MS weighs the same as the MB S560 and less than the BMW 760.

All those cars will wear out their "primary" wheels roughly the same rate.

 

[Hans L]

Once the rebates decrease those $35,000.00 buyers will be far less than there are now. They will be the most sensitive to the final price. It will be interesting to see what happens to EV sales in our province now that the EV credits went from $14,000.00 to $0. At some point EV's have to sell competitively with ICE cars for the market to grow. We are a long way from that now.

How many hyper price-sensitive buyers will actually qualify for the full $7,500 tax credit? Remember, you have to pay at least $7,500 in Fed Income taxes to qualify for the full tax credit.

 

[Knightshade]

Let’s be real…fan belts? Spark plugs? No new Toyota needs this stuff.

LOLWUT?

Do you think ICE cars don't use spark plugs anymore?

Toyota Scheduled Maintenance Guide - Vehicle Service Intervals | Seeger Toyota

60,000 miles or 72 months- Replace Spark Plugs

Fan belts you replace when needed instead of every X miles- but they also still exist- here's one for the 2018 camry
2018 Toyota Camry Belt, v(for fan & alternator) - 90916A2027 | Germain Toyota, Naples FL

 

[dsvick]

Remember, you have to pay at least $7,500 in Fed Income taxes to qualify for the full tax credit.

No, that's not true. It's based on your tax liability not on how much you have paid or owe.

 

[MP3Mike]

No, that's not true. It's based on your tax liability not on how much you have paid or owe.

Actually I would say your tax liability is what you owe, and you pay what you owe. So they are all the same. Of course the tax credit reduces your liability, which reduces what you owe, which reduces what you pay. (Now you could have pre-paid, as withholding or not, but that is irrelevant. That only comes in to play when you file your taxes and either pay the rest of what you owe, or get a refund of what you over pre-paid.)

 

[dsvick]

Actually I would say your tax liability is what you owe, and you pay what you owe. So they are all the same. Of course the tax credit reduces your liability, which reduces what you owe, which reduces what you pay. (Now you could have pre-paid, as withholding or not, but that is irrelevant.)

I understand what you're saying, I was just clarifying what the previous poster had said though because there a great many people out there that consider the difference between their withholding and their liability to be the amount they reference for the tax credit.

 

[adaptabl]

LOLWUT?

Do you think ICE cars don't use spark plugs anymore?

Toyota Scheduled Maintenance Guide - Vehicle Service Intervals | Seeger Toyota




Fan belts you replace when needed instead of every X miles- but they also still exist- here's one for the 2018 camry
2018 Toyota Camry Belt, v(for fan & alternator) - 90916A2027 | Germain Toyota, Naples FL

And how often do you replace the coolant and gear oil in a Tesla and at what cost? I agree on the fuel versus electricity cost but the maintenance is a wash. The tires do wear far quicker most likely to the regenerative braking.

 

[Knightshade]

And how often do you replace the coolant and gear oil in a Tesla and at what cost?

In a model 3? Never for gear oil.

Only things they list as scheduled service (besides tire rotation) is:


Battery coolant every 4 years.

Brake fluid every 2 (just like an ICE car should)

That's it.

 

[lensovet]

LOLWUT?

Do you think ICE cars don't use spark plugs anymore?

Toyota Scheduled Maintenance Guide - Vehicle Service Intervals | Seeger Toyota




Fan belts you replace when needed instead of every X miles- but they also still exist- here's one for the 2018 camry
2018 Toyota Camry Belt, v(for fan & alternator) - 90916A2027 | Germain Toyota, Naples FL

Ah yes dealers always find a way to rip you off. Meanwhile if you check the manufacturer guidelines you will see that https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-19Camry/pdf/T-MMS-19Camry.pdf only one engine type needs replacement.

Pretty sure the cost of supposedly replacing a fan belt will be eaten by the higher price you’ll pay on M3’s larger tires.

The MS weighs 1500 lbs less than an F250. What is the point you are making comparing unrelated cars?

The M3 weighs within 100 lbs of a BMW 340, MB C43, or Audi S4

The MS weighs the same as the MB S560 and less than the BMW 760.

All those cars will wear out their "primary" wheels roughly the same rate.

On what planet is an MR equivalent to an Audi S4? You’re accusing me of making inaccurate comparison and you think this is better? Lol an MS and a BMW760. Ok.

Guys Teslas are great cars. No need to make bogus maintenance savings arguments to prove that.

 

[Uncle Paul]

ICE cars have generally extended their intervals for lubrication and service parts, however when those parts are needed, they tend to be very expensive. Carburators no longer need rebuilding, but replacing the newer ultra high pressure fuel injectors can cost an arm and a let.

There are thousands or ICE repair places around, and they can be very profitable if well run. Customers are always grumbling at how much things cost to replace. An old steel muffler would rust out quickly and cost little to replace, but a new stainless steel muffler or catalyic convertor will put a big dent in your budget.

I had a beautiful Mercedes E 350. Every so many miles a service warning would come up on the dash and I had to take it to an authorized Mercedes dealership to get it cleared. They charged exorbitant prices for things like oil changes, timing chains, or even windshield wipers. I was unable to take it to an independent repair facility as they no longer could reset the warning on the dash.

Tesla has a million mile project internally. They intend to produce vehicles that can go a million miles with only little service.

I have to believe that the next generation of EVs will be relatively service free.

 

[TT97]

On what planet is an MR equivalent to an Audi S4? You’re accusing me of making inaccurate comparison and you think this is better? Lol an MS and a BMW760. Ok.

I was comparing the LR to the S4.

The MS, BMW 7-series and MB S-Class are all in the "Large Luxury" category.

Large Luxury Car Sales In America – September 2018 | GCBC

If you a comparing weights of cars - pick cars in the same category, don't pick a Large Luxury sedan to a Small Luxury coupe (A5).

I agree that the M3 will wear tires faster than an econobox fwd car but you are comparing different types of cars. It is not an EV vs ICE issue, it is a power & weight issue - an EV car will burn through tires at similar rates as an equivalent powered/weight ICE car.

 

[Uncle Paul]

The tire issue on an EV is a classic comprimise inherent in using ICE technology in EVs.

Michelin and others are hard at work in producing specialized tires for EVs. They will have larger tread surface and compounds that can better handle the instant torque of these cars.

As these get to market, I imagine we will see longer lasting and better performing tires on EVs.

ICE vehicles also have expensive transmission repair/replacement costs and brakes wear replacements. They eat air and oil filters, need frequent differential service, especially if equipped with limited slip differentials. They need motors serviced and lots of other services much more frequently than EVs.

When battery costs come down, as they are, the price parity with gas cars will happen. If there are enough charging stations available, the vast majority of people will convert to EV for their next purchase. Used gas cars will become hard to sell once people get used to the benefits of EV.

 

[Knightshade]

Ah yes dealers always find a way to rip you off. Meanwhile if you check the manufacturer guidelines you will see that https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-19Camry/pdf/T-MMS-19Camry.pdf only one engine type needs replacement.

The car only has 2 engine choices. A 4 cylinder and a 6 cylinder.

The 6, the only one remotely comparable to any Tesla, requires 60,000 mile spark plug replacement.

Pretty sure the cost of supposedly replacing a fan belt will be eaten by the higher price you’ll pay on M3’s larger tires.

...what?

The V6 XLE (lower trim) are 18 inches. exactly the same size as the base model 3.

The base tires on a Camry V6 XSE are 19 inches. exactly the same size as the upgraded sport wheels on the model 3.

A. No need to make bogus maintenance savings arguments to prove that.

I suggest you take your own advice