What's included in the non-Premium Package?

[PremiumPackage]

I think Tesla has to decide if they want to remain a “luxury” car maker though. I believe the “average” new vehicle is $35,000 these days. That includes all the economobiles and all of the luxury cars.

I hope they don't - we need to get EVs to the masses, and for that to happen it appears they need to be able to sell a 225 mile range sedan with an average level of tech/comfort for BELOW $35K, especially now that the tax credit is de minimus after 1H2019

 

[lensovet]

Apple never sold iPhones for $100; it's unclear to me that Tesla should/will ever sell a car for 20k.

 

[brianman]

Note that the dash panel of the PUP white interior is just plastic.

I was told Aluminum by multiple folks at Tesla. I haven't done a scientific test to validate, nor do I plan to do so.

 

[dsvick]

I think you're making a joke here, but at the risk of being an Internet Idiot myself, you can outfit a $31K Camry with nav, leather, and heated seats. And all Toyotas these days (even my rental Corolla a few weeks ago) have dynamic cruise control and lane departure warning - it ain't autopilot but it ain't bad either!

You can't compare the Toyota Camry to the Model 3, they are different cars in different classes. Compare the Model 3 to the Mercedes C class, BMW 3, Audi A4, etc. I do not think any of them come standard with traffic aware cruise or lane keep. Not even blind spot monitoring is standard.

I hope they don't - we need to get EVs to the masses, and for that to happen it appears they need to be able to sell a 225 mile range sedan with an average level of tech/comfort for BELOW $35K, especially now that the tax credit is de minimus after 1H2019

Agreed, there needs to be less expensive electric vehicle, the Model 3 isn't it though and wasn't intended to be. I know at one point Elon said he didn't think Tesla would make a less expensive vehicle, I think he's backed off on that though and said they might. If so, it is probably years away at this point, hopefully someone else will come along and create a compelling, non-luxury EV sooner than that.

 

[PremiumPackage]

You can't compare the Toyota Camry to the Model 3, they are different cars in different classes. Compare the Model 3 to the Mercedes C class, BMW 3, Audi A4, etc. I do not think any of them come standard with traffic aware cruise or lane keep. Not even blind spot monitoring is standard.

OK but eventually an EV needs to compete with the Camry. It may not be the M3, although I don't see why it couldn't be. Hopefully over time battery costs come down and the M3 cost comes down with it. Will make us early adopters feel a little dumb but it's not like this doesn't happen with every other tech product.

 

[voip-ninja]

OK but eventually an EV needs to compete with the Camry. It may not be the M3, although I don't see why it couldn't be. Hopefully over time battery costs come down and the M3 cost comes down with it. Will make us early adopters feel a little dumb but it's not like this doesn't happen with every other tech product.

LR Leaf will compete fairly well with the Camry.

 

[dsvick]

OK but eventually an EV needs to compete with the Camry. It may not be the M3, although I don't see why it couldn't be. Hopefully over time battery costs come down and the M3 cost comes down with it. Will make us early adopters feel a little dumb but it's not like this doesn't happen with every other tech product.

Agreed, but it won't be the model 3. When battery prices come down Tesla will, most likely do what they usually do an add more features as opposed to lowering the price. They may offer an even lower cost vehicle at some point but right now the Y is next and that's not until 2020 so anything else would be after that. I think they're hope was that someone else would step up to the plate and offer one, without that happening Tesla will be more than happy to do it, it will just be a while.

I guess there is always the chance that they modify the Y to be a lot less expensive than most people are thinking it will be.

 

[adaptabl]

LR Leaf will compete fairly well with the Camry.

It's not in the same league. A model 3 is much closer.

 

[voip-ninja]

It's not in the same league. A model 3 is much closer.

Why?

Because Leaf is a hatchback?

EVs have been sprouting like weeds in the designated EV parking at my work. Most of them are Model 3s or 2nd Gen Leafs (originally it was really just a small # of S/X and Gen 1 Leafs).

I assume a lot of the driver of this is tax credits.

Just yesterday some bonehead showed up in the garage with a lousy plugin Ford Fusion. I mean, are you kidding me? This person bought the crappiest plug-in car you can get, and now is hogging up one of the chargers all morning every morning so they can put their whopping 20 miles of battery range back on their crap car in 3 hours.

 

[adaptabl]

Why?

Because Leaf is a hatchback?

EVs have been sprouting like weeds in the designated EV parking at my work. Most of them are Model 3s or 2nd Gen Leafs (originally it was really just a small # of S/X and Gen 1 Leafs).

I assume a lot of the driver of this is tax credits.

Just yesterday some bonehead showed up in the garage with a lousy plugin Ford Fusion. I mean, are you kidding me? This person bought the crappiest plug-in car you can get, and now is hogging up one of the chargers all morning every morning so they can put their whopping 20 miles of battery range back on their crap car in 3 hours.

The leaf is a smaller car and no where near the quality level of the Camry.

As for PHEV's I am changing my mind. My wife has done 2300KM's since her first fill up(6 weeks ago) in her lousy Ford Fusion PHEV. So far she still has 3/4 of a tank of gas left. For a nicely equipped $23,000 CDN car(after incentives) it is a real deal. My Charger scat pack uses more fuel in 2-3 days. Her previous 2014 Escape was using 35-50L per week doing the same driving.

I am beginning to think that PHEV's give the biggest impact on emissions reduction for the dollar at this point.

 

[voip-ninja]

The leaf is a smaller car and no where near the quality level of the Camry.

As for PHEV's I am changing my mind. My wife has done 2300KM's since her first fill up(6 weeks ago) in her lousy Ford Fusion PHEV. So far she still has 3/4 of a tank of gas left. For a nicely equipped $23,000 CDN car(after incentives) it is a real deal. My Charger scat pack uses more fuel in 2-3 days. Her previous 2014 Escape was using 35-50L per week doing the same driving.

I am beginning to think that PHEV's give the biggest impact on emissions reduction for the dollar at this point.

Bang for buck? Sure, for many drivers.

Boring as hell? Also check.

Marginal EV benefits and still all the maintenance headache of ICE car? Double check.

What I think is Tesla will sell all of the 35,000 cars they choose to build next year with lots of demand. Demand for MR RWD so strong they already increased price $1,000 to match their ability to supply.

 

[adaptabl]

Also Long range EV's should not be using work chargers during the day. They should be charging at night to lower the demand on the grid at peek times. Those work chargers should only be for those who need the charge for the commute. Short range EV's and PHEV's.

 

[adaptabl]

Bang for buck? Sure, for many drivers.

Boring as hell? Also check.

Marginal EV benefits and still all the maintenance headache of ICE car? Double check.

What I think is Tesla will sell all of the 35,000 cars they choose to build next year with lots of demand. Demand for MR RWD so strong they already increased price $1,000 to match their ability to supply.

Once the rebates decrease those $35,000.00 buyers will be far less than there are now. They will be the most sensitive to the final price. It will be interesting to see what happens to EV sales in our province now that the EV credits went from $14,000.00 to $0. At some point EV's have to sell competitively with ICE cars for the market to grow. We are a long way from that now.

 

[voip-ninja]

Once the rebates decrease those $35,000.00 buyers will be far less than there are now. They will be the most sensitive to the final price. It will be interesting to see what happens to EV sales in our province now that the EV credits went from $14,000.00 to $0. At some point EV's have to sell competitively with ICE cars for the market to grow. We are a long way from that now.

Disagree. More people now than ten years ago keep their cars long term.

The more you drive the more you save with an EV.

Someone who drives 20,000 a year and buys Model 3 over ICE that gets 30mpg stands to save over $1500 a year on fuel cost alone in many parts of the country.

$15,000 over ten years makes up price gap of buying Model 3 vs Camry or Accord and doesn’t even account for thousands spent on scheduled maintenance over that time with a gas burner.

 

[Jedi2155]

Just yesterday some bonehead showed up in the garage with a lousy plugin Ford Fusion. I mean, are you kidding me? This person bought the crappiest plug-in car you can get, and now is hogging up one of the chargers all morning every morning so they can put their whopping 20 miles of battery range back on their crap car in 3 hours.

Do you remember the first Plug-In Prius? That thing had a 10 mile EV range with a 4.4 kWh pack (and assume only half of that is usable). That was the most anemic PHEV I ever saw.

 

[adaptabl]

Disagree. More people now than ten years ago keep their cars long term.

The more you drive the more you save with an EV.

Someone who drives 20,000 a year and buys Model 3 over ICE that gets 30mpg stands to save over $1500 a year on fuel cost alone in many parts of the country.

$15,000 over ten years makes up price gap of buying Model 3 vs Camry or Accord and doesn’t even account for thousands spent on scheduled maintenance over that time with a gas burner.

What is scheduled maintenance these days? An oil change once or twice a year at $50.00 each and an air filter every couple of years.

Ev's seem to chew thru tires far faster than ice cars. an extra $800.00-$1,000 set of tires every 3-4 years covers than difference pretty quickly.

I agree the fuel savings are there but most buyers look at the monthly payment and buy the most car they can for that money. It will be interesting to see how much more the average consumer will be willing to pay for an EV over an ICE car. Incentives skew the numbers now. Most new car buyers don't keep a car 10 years. The ones who do usually buy a 2-4 year old used car and keep it another 5+ years.

 

[voip-ninja]

What is scheduled maintenance these days? An oil change once or twice a year at $50.00 each and an air filter every couple of years.

Ev's seem to chew thru tires far faster than ice cars. an extra $800.00-$1,000 set of tires every 3-4 years covers than difference pretty quickly.

I agree the fuel savings are there but most buyers look at the monthly payment and buy the most car they can for that money. It will be interesting to see how much more the average consumer will be willing to pay for an EV over an ICE car. Incentives skew the numbers now. Most new car buyers don't keep a car 10 years. The ones who do usually buy a 2-4 year old used car and keep it another 5+ years.

As bad as Americans are at math they can figure out that if their $200 a month gasoline bill is replaced by $80 a month electric bill they are ahead assuming the difference in car loan payment is less than an extra $120 a month.

Even Hondas and Toyotas require more than a $50 a year oil change if you are putting real miles on them. They need brake pads every couple years, they need fan belts, they need valve adjustments, spark plugs, transmission fluid, etc. Even a low TCO car like a Civic is going to cost you a couple of grand to maintain over 200,000 miles assuming you just do the recommended maintenance and nothing breaks out of warranty.

 

[TT97]

Ev's seem to chew thru tires far faster than ice cars. an extra $800.00-$1,000 set of tires every 3-4 years covers than difference pretty quickly.

EVs don't chew through tires any faster than comparable powered ICE cars. A Tesla will wear tires faster than a low powered Toyota but a high torque RWD ICE car will wear out their tires just as fast as an EV.

 

[lensovet]

Let’s be real…fan belts? Spark plugs? No new Toyota needs this stuff.

 

[lensovet]

EVs don't chew through tires any faster than comparable powered ICE cars. A Tesla will wear tires faster than a low powered Toyota but a high torque RWD ICE car will wear out their tires just as fast as an EV.

M3 is heavier than Camry by 600-500 lbs depending on configuration

MS is heavier than an A5 by 1 ton

Plus the higher torque and acceleration absolutely wears your “primary” wheels faster.