Who wants in on a class action lawsuit? ;-)

[MP3Mike]

Would you care to comment about a total consumption of only 31.5kWh from 90% to 17%SOC...?

Are you talking about as shown on the trip meter? If so, I would say that is an almost worthless figure as it isn't entirely accurate/doesn't include all usage.

A better figure would be on the charge screen showing how many kWhs were added charging from 17% to 90%.

 

[5StarAdvisor]

Are you talking about as shown on the trip meter? If so, I would say that is an almost worthless figure as it isn't entirely accurate/doesn't include all usage.

A better figure would be on the charge screen showing how many kWhs were added charging from 17% to 90%.

This is a comparison of the Trips on by the ODO “since last charge”

Where does the charge screen show what was added as a total? I thought it only shows at what rate it’s charging.

How do YOU determine your usable kW?

 

[thesnooch]

Bump. 15' S 60 prefacelift, purchased cpo at 36k miles, current mileage is 50k~ so far no issues with battery (beside normal deg.)

As for the class action if there other owners out there with similar battery degradation issues and would be interested in pursuing legal remedy please PM me. Need more members to chime in and be on board to get this class certified.

 

[JJR64]

I have a Jan '14 build MS60 that I bought new on 2/14. The car currently has about 50k miles. I rarely supercharge (few times per year), I rarely charge over 90%, and I rarely take it below 20%. I charge most nights at home on a 240v at 40 amp to either 80% or 90%. My charge level has decreased to where my 90% is between 130 and 135 miles of rated range. I've tried the trick of taking the battery level to near zero and then trip charging to 100% a few times. I did this 3 times over a couple week period. The highest I ever got was 165 miles (rated range at 100% charge). Looking at power levels, I started at 3% charge remaining and went to 99%. The amount of power added was only 48kWh. Tesla keeps telling me that my battery is fine, but obviously it isn't. While I expect some battery degradation over a 5 year window, I wasn't expected such a large decrease - especially with babying the battery.

I have been a big fan of Tesla and I still love my car. I have had very few problems over the life of the vehicle and hope that I've been a low maintenance customer. This just doesn't seem right though.

ery is fine. Obviously it's not.

 

[MP3Mike]

~20% degradation does seem high, but it doesn't mean that anything is wrong with your battery. (On the Model 3 Tesla considers more than 30% degradation as a warrantable condition.)

Do you lose reported range more quickly than you should when you are near a low charge level? Like sudden drops in reported range. (That is the most common symptom of a battery module getting ready to fail.)

From what I have seen batteries that are Supercharged frequently appear to have less degradation than ones that aren't...

 

[vickh]

~20% degradation does seem high, but it doesn't mean that anything is wrong with your battery. (On the Model 3 Tesla considers more than 30% degradation as a warrantable condition.)

Do you lose reported range more quickly than you should when you are near a low charge level? Like sudden drops in reported range. (That is the most common symptom of a battery module getting ready to fail.)

From what I have seen batteries that are Supercharged frequently appear to have less degradation than ones that aren't...

ouch about the M3 comment. It's too soon to tell but shouldn't Tesla keep or even increase the warranty if the tech has gotten better? also the 125K mileage limitation. Too soon for M3 battery failures, but then again hopefully battery replacement will be much cheaper in the near future if needed.

Suprised about the SC comment. Is there a definitive researched "battery care" guide b/c I hear both things on the forums??

 

[sorka]

90% of 208, which is what it was new is 187. So 135 at 90% is 28% degradation. Not normal.

 

[David99]

The car currently has about 50k miles. I rarely supercharge (few times per year), I rarely charge over 90%, and I rarely take it below 20%. I charge most nights at home on a 240v at 40 amp to either 80% or 90%. My charge level has decreased to where my 90% is between 130 and 135 miles of rated range. I've tried the trick of taking the battery level to near zero and then trip charging to 100% a few times. I did this 3 times over a couple week period. The highest I ever got was 165 miles (rated range at 100% charge). Looking at power levels, I started at 3% charge remaining and went to 99%. The amount of power added was only 48kWh. Tesla keeps telling me that my battery is fine, but obviously it isn't. While I expect some battery degradation over a 5 year window, I wasn't expected such a large decrease - especially with babying the battery.

What you describe is not normal. Almost 30% degradation after 50k miles is not normal. Mine has 210k miles, also made in 2014 and the degradation is aprox 10%. Same age and more than 4 times the miles yet only 1/3 of the degradation. How can Tesla say that's normal. There is plenty of data out there of cars that show what is normal. Yours isn't.

We keep hearing these stories and it makes me mad. All those people that bought Teslas in the early years were the ones that enabled the success, got the company off the ground and everyone was pretty much a travelling sales man for Tesla. Your battery has an issue and Tesla claiming it's 'normal' is kicking their most loyal and early supportes in the nuts. The vast majority of battery hold up just amazing. Only a few are failing. That's exactly what a warranty is for.

 

[sorka]

What do the relative voltages of each string show in tm-spy?

 

[Merrill]

My 2013 S60 with 38,000 miles charges to 180 at 90% and 200 on a range charge.

 

[MP3Mike]

What you describe is not normal. Almost 30% degradation after 50k miles is not normal. Mine has 210k miles, also made in 2014 and the degradation is aprox 10%. Same age and more than 4 times the miles yet only 1/3 of the degradation. How can Tesla say that's normal. There is plenty of data out there of cars that show what is normal. Yours isn't.

Tesla didn't say it was normal. They said that the battery is fine and hasn't failed. Remember gradual degradation, of any level, isn't covered under the S&X battery warranty.

 

[ACA Man]

I have a Jan '14 build MS60 that I bought new on 2/14. The car currently has about 50k miles. I rarely supercharge (few times per year), I rarely charge over 90%, and I rarely take it below 20%. I charge most nights at home on a 240v at 40 amp to either 80% or 90%. My charge level has decreased to where my 90% is between 130 and 135 miles of rated range. I've tried the trick of taking the battery level to near zero and then trip charging to 100% a few times. I did this 3 times over a couple week period. The highest I ever got was 165 miles (rated range at 100% charge). Looking at power levels, I started at 3% charge remaining and went to 99%. The amount of power added was only 48kWh. Tesla keeps telling me that my battery is fine, but obviously it isn't. While I expect some battery degradation over a 5 year window, I wasn't expected such a large decrease - especially with babying the battery.

I have been a big fan of Tesla and I still love my car. I have had very few problems over the life of the vehicle and hope that I've been a low maintenance customer. This just doesn't seem right though.
View attachment 418481 View attachment 418482 ery is fine. Obviously it's not.

Sent you a PM.

 

[ACA Man]

My 2013 S60 with 38,000 miles charges to 180 at 90% and 200 on a range charge.

THIS is normal.

 

[David99]

Tesla didn't say it was normal. They said that the battery is fine and hasn't failed. Remember gradual degradation, of any level, isn't covered under the S&X battery warranty.

30% capacity loss after 50k miles is not degradation. That's the point. It's some other condition, flaw, defect, failed cell, ...

There is plenty of data out there showing was average degradation is. This example isn't even close. Not even within the lower end of the spectrum. It is completely off the chart.

 

[MP3Mike]

30% capacity loss after 50k miles is not degradation.

But after he cycled his battery he only showed ~20% degradation. (165 miles at 100%.)

 

[David99]

But after he cycled his battery he only showed ~20% degradation. (165 miles at 100%.)

Still too much to be degradation IMHO. I have 4 times the miles and 10%. If he had 8% I'd say that's a lot but acceptable. 20% can't be right.

 

[MP3Mike]

Still too much to be degradation IMHO. I have 4 times the miles and 10%. If he had 8% I'd say that's a lot but acceptable. 20% can't be right.

Too much for what? The warranty specifically excludes gradual degradation. So you could lose 1% a week for a year and it still not be too much to cause a warranty claim. However if you lose 10% overnight that isn't a gradual loss and is enough to cause a valid warranty claim.

I'm not saying that I fully agree with the warranty, but that is what the warranty is, and always has been, and people bought the car knowing, or at least they should have known, that. I'm really surprised by the Model 3 battery warranty having a, fairly short, mileage component. (The 30% degradation portion is on the high side, but is inline with the industry. I think Tesla could/should do better than that.)

 

[aerodyne]

JJR/David;

Agreed this degradation is not normal nor acceptable. However, the warranty language is clear.

I think it is possible, likely even, that you will see a complete battery failure within the warranty period, of one or more modules, or a failure to charge, or deliver full power. This would be covered under the warranty.

I would drive it hard, but within limits, say 20-90%, and be ready for a sudden failure. Let your SA know your situation, and keep track of your battery health and power output...

 

[David99]

Too much for what? The warranty specifically excludes gradual degradation.

I'm not talking about degradation. I'm saying the loss of range for this age and mileage is too much to be degradation. Degradation rates are well established from plenty of data we have from thousands of cars. This car/battery is way off the charts. It can't be explained with degradation. Without reading data from this battery I can't say what it is, but based on my experience looking at the data from many cars, from publicly available data and from the car's age/usage 20% loss can't be degradation.

 

[asim120]

I have a Jan '14 build MS60 that I bought new on 2/14. The car currently has about 50k miles. I rarely supercharge (few times per year), I rarely charge over 90%, and I rarely take it below 20%. I charge most nights at home on a 240v at 40 amp to either 80% or 90%. My charge level has decreased to where my 90% is between 130 and 135 miles of rated range. I've tried the trick of taking the battery level to near zero and then trip charging to 100% a few times. I did this 3 times over a couple week period. The highest I ever got was 165 miles (rated range at 100% charge). Looking at power levels, I started at 3% charge remaining and went to 99%. The amount of power added was only 48kWh. Tesla keeps telling me that my battery is fine, but obviously it isn't. While I expect some battery degradation over a 5 year window, I wasn't expected such a large decrease - especially with babying the battery.

I have been a big fan of Tesla and I still love my car. I have had very few problems over the life of the vehicle and hope that I've been a low maintenance customer. This just doesn't seem right though.
View attachment 418481 View attachment 418482 ery is fine. Obviously it's not.

I feel your pain--my experience has been very similar to yours. I have a silver 60 that I bought new in 3/2014. My car has 37k miles. I rarely supercharge and rarely charge over 90% and almost never take it below 20%. I charge on my 14-50 at 30 amp to 85% every morning right before I leave for work. I have seen 15-18% degradation despite babying my battery in a similar fashion. Tesla told me that my battery was normal. I still like my car despite my disappointment with the company; it would have been nice to have a battery that was as "normal" as those that others tout on TMC.