Why am I getting 330+ Wh/mi?

[coleAK]

Common misconception. California is huge and has a diverse climate. For instance the pass on I80 between the Sparks, NV Gigafactory and the Fremont factory has more average snowfall than most parts of Michigan.

Agree about speed (EPA average test speed is around 55 MPH) and cabin heat. EV's (all of them) don't have enough waste heat to adequately heat the cabin, so must use battery energy for that if demanded.

Snow yes but cold, Not so much. I grew up in Tahoe (was born in Reno). And lived there through undergrad. 17 years in South lake and 7 years in Truckee. I left in the mid 1990s for professional school and then another 3 winters. “Really Cold” there was in the teens (F) And most winters it never got below 0 (F).

We’ve been in Alaska for over 10 years and I’m pretty sure Tesla did much of their cold weather testing up here. I never saw any model 3’s But there were a few winters a while back where we would see fleets of S or X cruzing around in the winter.

And Donner pass on I 80 gets more average snowfall and most parts of the Rockies, and if you look at the last 20 years some of the highest snowfall of any inhabited regions in the world. The winter of 99-2000 we broke the 100’ (yes feet) at sugar bowl.

 

[Richt]

Also snow and rain account for another 10% but going from 70 to 80 makes a huge difference. When we drive we often draft behind big trucks or SUVs. Not close enough to be dangerous but they freak the wind. We Use abetterouteplanner.com to estimate and teslafi.com to measure actuals. Not much experience with the M3 yet but with MX we’ve ended up within 3% of estimates after tweaking the parameters. Main one is your energy consumption at 65 mph.

 

[iaflyer]

Common misconception. California is huge and has a diverse climate. For instance the pass on I80 between the Sparks, NV Gigafactory and the Fremont factory has more average snowfall than most parts of Michigan.

Agree about speed (EPA average test speed is around 55 MPH) and cabin heat. EV's (all of them) don't have enough waste heat to adequately heat the cabin, so must use battery energy for that if demanded.

I know that California gets snow and is cold in the mountains. However, the designers and engineers generally live in a temperate climate, and in my experience, that affects what are "big issues" for them. For example, they probably experience stop and go traffic every day. What works really well in all versions of the AP equipped cars? Traffic Aware Cruise Control.

They don't feel the cold on a day to day basis so it's a more abstract concept. "sure, it will be cold so we'll put in seat heaters, etc" but they don't contemplate the issue as much. If Tesla was thinking, they'd adjust the rated range available to adjust to outside air temp (or expected temperature, that's an easy web query away).

Real life example: my father in law worked for Volkswagen for decades in product development and testing. VWs for a long time have had small, inaccessible cup holders. The reason? In Germany, you drink your small coffee/tea with friends, sitting in a shop or restaurant, not in the car. Thus, the need for large/accessible cup holders was never seen. Every US product survey said "bigger and more cup holders" but the designers in Germany never saw it as an issue. The German test drivers would come to America to drive the cars to Death Valley and up Pikes Peak. Enroute from Michigan to out west, they'd stop at a truck stop and get a coffee, get in the car, look around and never have a place to put their large coffee. What would they do? Buy those old-style cup holders that hang on the door to hold it.

Designers have to live in the environment (eat your own dog food) to really create a great product.

 

[DR61]

However, the designers and engineers generally live in a temperate climate, and in my experience, that affects what are "big issues" for them.

I get what you are saying, but we don't know what past experience many of these people have. We do know that the chief designer, Franz von Holzhausen, is from Connecticut and worked for VW, GM, and Mazda previously.

I now use the battery meter like a fuel gauge on a gas car, and the trip computer and energy app for estimating range.

 

[coleAK]

I really don’t see the complaint. How else do you think an electric car can heat the cabin other than an electric heater? Really I think the only thing that could help would be a blanket inside cover for the glass roof. Electric heat is extremely inefficient which is why we use natural gas in cold climates.

If you really want to conserve electricity here is an idea, an LP tent heater with the golf cart cup holder attachment for your Tesla.

 

[tccartier]

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I really don’t see the complaint. How else do you think an electric car can heat the cabin other than an electric heater? Really I think the only thing that could help would be a blanket inside cover for the glass roof. Electric heat is extremely inefficient which is why we use natural gas in cold climates.

If you really want to conserve electricity here is an idea, an LP tent heater with the golf cart cup holder attachment for your Tesla.
View attachment 354643View attachment 354642

*Carbon Monoxide detector not included.

 

[Rocky_H]

Why am I getting 330+ Wh/mi?

Asked...

all at highway speeds [...] at regular highway speeds

...and answered.

The average EPA rating efficiency constant that is used to calculate the "rated mile" is certainly not at conditions that are as fast as most people use for their "highways speeds". That extra speed really hurts efficiency. Nothing wrong with doing it, though. No one is holding a gun to your head forcing you to go slower, but everything has tradeoffs. You can keep your house thermostat lower and put on a sweatshirt and slippers, or you can turn it up and be toasty warm, but you will pay a higher utility bill for that extra heating. Either is your choice, and you get what you choose.

 

[ForeverFree]

Yes, the California cracks get old. Angeles Crest Highway, here in Los Angeles County, averages over 100 inches of snow per year. Further north, Mammoth Mountain averages 400 and the Tahoe resorts closer to 500.

Compared with the six inches that just brought NYC to a screeching halt, there's way more snow and ice out here. 2+ feet in the Sierras for Turkey Day ...

 

[ForeverFree]

I know that California gets snow and is cold in the mountains. However, the designers and engineers generally live in a temperate climate, and in my experience, that affects what are "big issues" for them. For example, they probably experience stop and go traffic every day. What works really well in all versions of the AP equipped cars? Traffic Aware Cruise Control.

They don't feel the cold on a day to day basis so it's a more abstract concept. "sure, it will be cold so we'll put in seat heaters, etc" but they don't contemplate the issue as much. If Tesla was thinking, they'd adjust the rated range available to adjust to outside air temp (or expected temperature, that's an easy web query away).

Real life example: my father in law worked for Volkswagen for decades in product development and testing. VWs for a long time have had small, inaccessible cup holders. The reason? In Germany, you drink your small coffee/tea with friends, sitting in a shop or restaurant, not in the car. Thus, the need for large/accessible cup holders was never seen. Every US product survey said "bigger and more cup holders" but the designers in Germany never saw it as an issue. The German test drivers would come to America to drive the cars to Death Valley and up Pikes Peak. Enroute from Michigan to out west, they'd stop at a truck stop and get a coffee, get in the car, look around and never have a place to put their large coffee. What would they do? Buy those old-style cup holders that hang on the door to hold it.

Designers have to live in the environment (eat your own dog food) to really create a great product.

I've lived in Silicon Valley. It's three hours to world-class skiing -- most of it driving through world-class blizzards -- and SV folks drive up there almost every weekend.

Personally, I've found my AWD Model S an amazing snow/ice car and am confident that the P3D will prove the same.

 

[coleAK]

Yes, the California cracks get old. Angeles Crest Highway, here in Los Angeles County, averages over 100 inches of snow per year. Further north, Mammoth Mountain averages 400 and the Tahoe resorts closer to 500.

Compared with the six inches that just brought NYC to a screeching halt, there's way more snow and ice out here. 2+ feet in the Sierras for Turkey Day ...

I agree, like I said I grew up there. Most people who haven’t been there or seen much of the state have no idea how much diversity ecologically there is and how big the state is. You pretty much have it all (aside from inhabited areas that see real cold temps top of Whitney doesn't count).

And now that I’ve been in Alaska for over a decade people really don’t understand how big Alaska is. >4 times CA, would cover most of the lower 48 if laid on top, drive from Anchorage to Seattle is farther then Atlanta to Los Angeles.

The one thing I do miss about growing up in Tahoe is the ability to get in the car and get out of winter for the day. Middle of winter I could drive 3 hrs to Sacramento and play golf then go back home to the snow. For me to do that now it’s a 5 hour flight to Hawaii.

 

[OverJohn]

Air resistance increases exponentially with speed. There’s a big difference in energy consumption between 70 mph and 80 mph. Even dropping your speed by 5 mph can make a noticible difference.

Air resistance increases with the square of speed. Rolling resistance increases linearly with speed, so overall consumption increases with the cube of the speed. Doubling speed from 30 to 60 increases consumption x8.

The same is true for ICE cars but people don’t seem to care as much about energy consumption in ICE cars.

Absolutely. The smallest gas tank of any vehicle I owned was 10 gallons. The Model 3 has just about 2 gallons of gas equivalent (39 kWh/gallon of gas) so consumption makes a much bigger difference. Plus ~2/3 of the energy in an ICE car is waste heat, so there's not as much difference in total consumption at speed.

 

[AtlasReardan]

I've been averaging 350 - 360 wh/mile with mixed driving. Been scratching my head wondering if the resulting range is normal myself...