Why bother to pre-order the new Model 3 (or whatever it is called now)

[cfttester]

cfttester, if you're sincere, then your post above pretty much provides all the answers in my opinion.

You placed a model X reservation in 2012/2013 (before significant supercharger roll out), and in the intervening years you never kept abreast of the company (not saying that's a bad thing, just your prerogative) and its mission. It seems that you had expected everyone else here (or maybe just most of us) to go into the model 3 reservations with equal naivety. Perhaps you need to realize that most people here know exactly what we're getting ourselves into and have more than a superficial understanding of what's in store for the next 2-3 years.

Granted, there will be plenty of people who don't comb this forum and will indeed be surprised with initial production quality and that the high-optioned model 3 will be built before the base model 3 (despite reservation order), but that's a different topic.

You being upset about Tesla's reservation process is one thing, and there's no excuse for the poor communication that caused it (which is why Musk mentioned that the high-optioned model 3's will be produced first during the conference call to avoid any doubt). The early production quality issues is also a known factor amongst the forum members (happened to model S AND X). And I'm sure there will be some new issue that crops up during the production process for the model 3 as well.

None of this translates to any reason why we would choose to withhold our support for Tesla to deliver the model 3. Which is what that deposit represents, a sort of kickstarter-funding as well as a placeholder before the rest of the unwashed masses gets a chance to order one.

Well said. Still a lot of royal "we" though . It's interesting, but the "speak for yourself" rule is quite common on forums like this one, but not here.
Do not forget, that the target population for the Model 3 is substantially bigger. Not all of then know that Model X even exists, even lesser number know how reservation gestapo works at TM.

 

[cfttester]

It does not make sense to me that anyone would be pissed off at Tesla to the degree that you seem to be for such trivial reason.

Of course people will be pissed-off later when they realize that history repeats again, and now they are the part of it.

 

[Auzie]

Of course people will be pissed-off later when they realize that history repeats again, and now they are the part of it.

Possible. What do you suggest Tesla do differently regarding their ordering process to minimize customer upset?

 

[cfttester]

Possible. What do you suggest Tesla do differently regarding their ordering process to minimize customer upset?

To check how reservation Leaf process was handled by Nissan.

1. They started delivery on time.
2. In case a customer was confirming order in the given range of dates, the orders were placed in the sequence the reservation was made. Obviously some batching existed because cars were shipped from Japan, but it was in a range of weeks not half-a-year.

So, no matter how engineers want to have a "cool" features added. Time and quality has some priority.
And... make supercharger an expensive feature. If TM will double the number of there cars at "free" superchargers in a year, they will get a bunch of unhappy influential "early adopters" on Ss and Xs.

 

[Tam]

...unhappy influential "early adopters"...

Unhappy doesn't mean we quit on Tesla.

When we are unhappy we just tell Tesla and it has been very responsive.

In the beginning, there were only 1 Supercharger bay at Harris Ranch and there was a line of Model S.

I was not happy but that didn't mean I stop driving my Model S.

We complained to Tesla and it expanded to 10 bays now.

That and also expansions to overflow to other locations: Gilroy, Manteca, Fresno and Buttonwillow...

The same responsiveness when we had to wait at other places.

Originally, the date on the dashboard was too small and dim. We complained and Tesla got the font bigger with subsequent software updates over the air.

So: Unhappy? Yes,

but quit on Tesla? No!

Why: Tesla's direct relationship to its customers is the best!

 

[ankitmishra]

I think it is better to expect the worst delay rather than to promise an earliest possible date.

Historically, with each model, Roadster, S, then X, an initial ramping up takes time.

It's possible that Model ≡ will not need a slow ramping up time but I would not encourage people to ignore the past.

The recent trend shows that Tesla is more aware of the deadlines that it gives. Model X was launched in Q3. P90D, S70D all were immediately Incorporated into the product line. Design studio for X was also opened on the promised date. Tesla is serious about the criticism of its inability to stick to deadlines. I am sure Model 3 will be launched in late 2017. Please note, that the initial ramp up is more important and people are giving more importance to launch date.

 

[Tam]

...initial ramp up is more important and people are giving more importance to launch date...

I am not sure I understood the ranking here.

Are you saying that people rank the importance as:

1) Launch date.
2) Initial ramp up

While you think it should be the opposite:

1) Initial ramp up
2) Launch date.


What I can observe is Tesla can adhere to a launch date to a few who are very much supportive owners such as Founders (Elon Musk, Google CEO...)

However, to ramp the production up after that to the rest would take more time.

At some time, Tesla has to start Model ≡ production line whether the design is on going or not.

It has imposed its own deadline for the launch date as 12/31/2017.

Instead of Founders this time, employees will be the first to receive theirs.

The ramp up speed will depend on how smooth the initial launch will be first.

So I would say both are important.

Will Model ≡ be on time this time? In theory, yes. But that's what we said about Model X too.

It's good to be optimistic about the timeline but don't be mad if future might throw a monkey wrench into the works.

 

[ankitmishra]

@Tam Ramp is more important in my opinion. We have seen that some people were disappointed when Q4 deliveries were less. I think this won't be an issue with Model 3 as launch and ramp up would coincide. I believe there won't be any delay with Model 3. Still, I can understand if you and others might be a little cautious. But I disagree with people who are expecting Model X type delay with Model 3 too.

 

[JRP3]

Do not forget, that the target population for the Model 3 is substantially bigger. Not all of then know that Model X even exists, even lesser number know how reservation gestapo works at TM.

And those people aren't reading this forum, so all your hand wringing is wasted on your audience here.

 

[JRP3]

The majority of utility companies around the world supported CHAdeMO’s view in eventually setting the most appropriate power level at 50KW.

So your argument is that because Chademo is under powered and slower it's better? Not to mention that Tesla doesn't seem to have a problem getting the power they need for superchargers.

Also:

No one will be shocked to hear that the Nissan CHAdeMO was broken

Random Model X sightings

 

[houdini]

I give the forum members more credit than you. Most of us do indeed know what we are talking about.

Sorry, but it's a waste in your opinion, which obviously none of us seem to share. .

I wouldn't say none. I agree. there's logic behind not bothering to reserve because it's a waste of time. When the S came out you reserved and got early cars as signatures. But there won't be those for Model threes as stated many times. If I order a Model S today I get it in 6-8 weeks. No biggie.

So my thinking, now that current owners get priority, is that once Model 3's start being produced the employee cars and the owners cars will be first (at least higher spec'd ones). First built, delivered. Now Tesla is making this a mass market, bulk produced vehicle right. And so it won't be 250 cars per week like an X, but if they want to hit targets they better be smashing out '000's a week pretty quickly. Mabye tens of '000's. So once they knock off the current owners etc couldn't you just go onto the Tesla website and order a car and get it in 3 months? Therefore if they start shipping late 2017 you could feasibly wait until cars have been on the roads for a while and order in early 2018 and get a car a few months later. So as non-tesla owner wouldn't that kind of be the same timeframe as if you reserved one and put down $1000 for two years? Is my logic flawed? I agree with the topic title: is it worth pre-ordering? Will it get you a car any more than a few months earliet?

 

[houdini]

So your argument is that because Chademo is under powered and slower it's better? Not to mention that Tesla doesn't seem to have a problem getting the power they need for superchargers.

Also:


Random Model X sightings

It's the Tesla's that are breaking the Chademos by the way.

 

[JRP3]

As I said there are too many unknowns to state it's a waste, and why is moving up a few months worthless? If I only get my car 3 months faster that's worth it.

 

[JRP3]

It's the Tesla's that are breaking the Chademos by the way.

How so? A car shouldn't be able to break a charge station. That's a flawed design in the charge station.

 

[houdini]

Ah, so now you admit your motive, you're a pissed off customer who wants to somehow hurt Tesla by spreading FUD. You haven't brought any data that any of us are unaware of, you just keep arguing against everyone that they simply should not put their money down for a Model 3, but, again, you provide nothing at all that we don't already know. Sorry, it's not going to work, we don't need your advice, warnings, concerns, or whatever else you want to pretend you are providing us. Your methods were quite transparent, and now your motives are obvious. FUD is FUD, no matter from whence it comes. You might try spreading it on Seeking Alpha or the Yahoo message boards, it's not going to work here, we know too much about the subject.

Can you give it a rest. I'm not seeing talk about not buying a Tesla or talking down the cars (am I reading it wrong??). It's discussion about ordering. I for one regard myself as a Tesla fan. I am p$#$ed off about owners getting priority for 3 orders. Annoyed enough that I probably won't queue up as I was going to as I now see little benefit. But it doesn't mean I'm not buying one, nor that I think Tesla is making the best EVs and will continue to disrupt the automotive world. I'm telling everyone to buy Tesla, S, 3, whatever you can afford. Get the stock up to $300 so they can keep smashing the fossil car makers. But the company is not above criticism (from us armchair coaches).

 

[houdini]

How so? A car shouldn't be able to break a charge station. That's a flawed design in the charge station.

Well I've been successfully charging at Chademo for two years and the chargers have performed pretty faultlessly until the Tesla Chademo adapters turned up and caused a charger fault. There's a fair bit of discussion about the Chademo adapters and some issues. Sorry bit off topic. I think it might be limited to the Fuji ones but can't remember.

 

[JRP3]

Can you give it a rest. I'm not seeing talk about not buying a Tesla or talking down the cars (am I reading it wrong??). It's discussion about ordering. I for one regard myself as a Tesla fan. I am p$#$ed off about owners getting priority for 3 orders. Annoyed enough that I probably won't queue up as I was going to as I now see little benefit. But it doesn't mean I'm not buying one, nor that I think Tesla is making the best EVs and will continue to disrupt the automotive world. I'm telling everyone to buy Tesla, S, 3, whatever you can afford. Get the stock up to $300 so they can keep smashing the fossil car makers. But the company is not above criticism (from us armchair coaches).

I never suggested the company was above criticism. However, I'm not at all upset about Tesla giving existing owners first crack, and I'm not an existing owner. I think it's a smart business move. As far as the OP talking down the cars, read the thread. He keeps going on about all the other soon to be released EV's and how the supercharger network isn't as good as Chademo, as if those are reasons not to reserve a Model 3. It was clear he was grasping at straws to support his argument, his motivation was in question, and then he admitted he was pissed off at Tesla and was lashing out. What he really should have done was start a thread stating that he was unhappy with Tesla and why, not create this bizarre thread trying to convince others not to pre-order, and throwing everything but the kitchen sink at it to try and support his argument.

 

[DrivingTheFuture]

New Leaf, likely Infinity based on Leaf. I would not be surprised to see an updated i3 before Model 3 will become available. Maybe new MB B-Class

“You fool! You fell victim to one of the classic blunders! The most famous is never to get involved in an EV war on Teslamotorsclub.com. And only slightly less well known is this: never go in against a Tesla when range is on the line! BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA BAHAHAHA!!!! ”

 

[jkk_]

I wouldn't say none. I agree. there's logic behind not bothering to reserve because it's a waste of time. When the S came out you reserved and got early cars as signatures. But there won't be those for Model threes as stated many times. If I order a Model S today I get it in 6-8 weeks. No biggie.

So my thinking, now that current owners get priority, is that once Model 3's start being produced the employee cars and the owners cars will be first (at least higher spec'd ones). First built, delivered. Now Tesla is making this a mass market, bulk produced vehicle right. And so it won't be 250 cars per week like an X, but if they want to hit targets they better be smashing out '000's a week pretty quickly. Mabye tens of '000's. So once they knock off the current owners etc couldn't you just go onto the Tesla website and order a car and get it in 3 months? Therefore if they start shipping late 2017 you could feasibly wait until cars have been on the roads for a while and order in early 2018 and get a car a few months later. So as non-tesla owner wouldn't that kind of be the same timeframe as if you reserved one and put down $1000 for two years? Is my logic flawed? I agree with the topic title: is it worth pre-ordering? Will it get you a car any more than a few months earliet?

I think you expressed my thoughts very well. I don't see the added benefits of reserving in the "first batch" now that the queuing is skewed. Doesn't mean that I'm not expecting the Model 3. Might be worth of dropping one's name in the pool after the options are announced closer to production start, though.

 

[shrspeedblade]

So you're give a warning to everyone about putting down a deposit on Model ≡ based on your experiences with having a deposit down on a Model X? Ok, point well taken. I imagine someone who spends any time on this forum or following Tesla will be well aware of the significant delays or frustrating build queue system for X, whether that is enough of a negative to not put down a deposit is up to the individual.

As for me it is not. And besides, I just got a 2016 Volt to make the wait easier (among several other good reasons) and it's such a good car if I'm getting my low-optioned Model ≡ in mid 2017 that would be too soon for my liking! (I know, I don't have much to worry about! )

FWIW, I think you've made your point but continuing to harp on it is only weakening your case.