Why does Tesla not advise 90 to 100 kwh battery upgrades?

[Aggmeister2010]

In a Gruber video from last year, they mention that Tesla doesn't advise buying a 100kwh pack and putting it in a P90D as an upgrade.

Tesla cites the reason as being related to impacts in the "airbag deployment timing and structural rigidity" of the car. Not a firmware issue.

I don't really buy that. Maybe I'm just skating over something critical, but a Tesla battery module weighs 55 lbs. Not earth-shattering weight.

Is there a difference in adding two more battery modules (110 lbs total) vs adding 3 passengers and luggage (650 lbs total)?

Is this more of a "Cover Your Ass" kind of liability limiting move since they changed the seats (a safety item) between the nose cone and refresh models, and can't sign off on this kind of modification now?

Or can the unibody frame not support another 100 lbs in the pack?

 

[rducharme]

Could it be related to the cooling needed, coolant hose location/connections, firmware to track different battery capability/needs, physical size/connector locations, or electrical cable setup/wiring? All those might come into play making a simple battery purchase into a complex service operation. I am a newbe so could have missed items.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Could it be related to the cooling needed, coolant hose location/connections, firmware to track different battery capability/needs, physical size/connector locations, or electrical cable setup/wiring? All those might come into play making a simple battery purchase into a complex service operation. I am a newbe so could have missed items.

They stated it wasn't a firmware issue. The upgrade is absolutely doable, and several vendors here do it. So I don't think cooling/connectors are necessarily an issue, since they're just adding more modules to the existing battery frame. I just don't know if Tesla's making a bogus excuse or if there's some legitimacy there.

 

[Unclepaul]

Tesla does extensive engineering and testing to achieve World Class passenger safety crash protection. Changing out one battery configuration for another could significantly degrade that performance.

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Tesla does extensive engineering and testing to achieve World Class passenger safety crash protection. Changing out one battery configuration for another could significantly degrade that performance.

Lol, that sounds straight out of some marketing handbook.

That's exactly the kind of high-level, generic jargon that we're trying to dissect in this thread.

 

[ucmndd]

There are 1,152 more cells in a 100kwh pack vs. an 85/90 - 16% more - so the weight difference is notable, but not extreme.

Recall that Tesla did offer 90-100 upgrades themselves for a hot minute - customers that took delivery of P90DLs around the time the 100 was introduced were offered the opportunity to upgrade for $10,000. Tesla ended up doing a few of these, but not a ton, and there were a bunch of other little things they had to change as well - for example the front SEATS had to be swapped out from Next Gens to Premiums, likely for some crash homologation reasons.

So I think it's largely a hand-waving "we don't recommend that" just because of all the possible equipment permutations that were never tested or intended to necessarily work together. There are other considerations like suspension type... 100 packs were only ever delivered with air suspension cars so fitting one to a coil car may have its own issues, etc etc...

 

[airborne spoon]

I think its tesla just doing a little CYA when saying it cant be done. And its not logical either, think about it if you go from a 60 (61kWh) to a 90 (85.8kWh) that is a bigger difference than going from a 85 (81.5kWh) to 100 (103 kWh) so if the extra weight and *sugar* aren't a prob for those cars then going from an P85D to P100D shouldn't be a prob either, especially if the car has air suspension and *sugar* already.

 

[brkaus]

Do other brands upgrade engines and do aftermarket mods?

I’m sure it’s just CYA but if they do it they become responsible.

 

[Cheburashka]

Do other brands upgrade engines and do aftermarket mods?

I’m sure it’s just CYA but if they do it they become responsible.

Yes, a lot of brands do. You can get performance upgrades at the dealer and it's a big profit maker for them.

Of course with Tesla we have service centers that don't seem to care about profits, the customers or anything else for that matter.

 

[maximizese]

Yes, a lot of brands do. You can get performance upgrades at the dealer and it's a big profit maker for them.

Of course with Tesla we have service centers that don't seem to care about profits, the customers or anything else for that matter.

Yep. Roush, TRD, Stillen, and other aftermarket performance tuners offered forced induction kits that either were made from the manufacturer factory or installed at an approved dealership for Ford, Toyota, Nissan, etc respectively. 20 years ago you could have a Toyota dealership install a supercharger onto a Camry complete with the factory warranty.

 

[ucmndd]

I think its tesla just doing a little CYA when saying it cant be done. And its not logical either, think about it if you go from a 60 (61kWh) to a 90 (85.8kWh) that is a bigger difference than going from a 85 (81.5kWh) to 100 (103 kWh) so if the extra weight and *sugar* aren't a prob for those cars then going from an P85D to P100D shouldn't be a prob either, especially if the car has air suspension and *sugar* already.

I generally agree, but putting a 1500 pound battery in a car designed for an 1800 pound battery isn’t exactly the same proposition/concern as putting a 2000 pound battery in a car designed for an 1800 pound battery.

(Weight numbers are made up, just for illustration)

 

[PCMc]

There is a distinction in the vehicle certification world between is something technically doable, you or a third party able to do it, versus the OEM being allowed to do it within the bounds of their official vehicle certifications. Some may not like to consider that, but for Tesla as a vehicle manufacturer, it is a reality of doing business and them being deemed non-compliant if they offer, even as a service retrofit, a vehicle configuration that is not covered under the official vehicle certification (homologation) paperwork.

Having spent time in my professional life being involved in such OEM certifications it is a but frustrating at times the extent of effort the OEM must go through to legally certify and sell, even as OEM provided upfits, versus you as a third party vendor in your garage being able to come up with a retrofit kit and then sell to consumers without any form of legal certification effort. This has always struct me as a bit of a dual standard, uneven playing field, but it is the way it is in the US.

So regarding battery upgrades, yes there can be a valid justification why Telsa would not directly provide or endorse that as except for the very narrow period when they did this on some vehicles, they have not completed all the necessary crash testing to account for the added mass, albeit it may seem small to you, to show that would still pass all the official crash impact standards. The example cited above of the need for Tesla to change out the front seats very possibly got into the fact that to provide the larger battery but with the older seats would have required running vehicle crash tests to confirm that the occupant safety standards were met. That testing like would have likely included crashing multiple test cars and cost them much more than what they spent replacing seats on some number of cars.

However, that limitation on Tesla does not limit any you, or a Gruber, Electrified Garage, or any other shop from doing this. As for the examples of engine upfit kits being sold by some manufacturers, make sure you are differentiating between a dealership selling those versus this being sold directly by the OEM parent company. I've personally be in service departments, saw 3rd party upfit kits for sale in the service department count showcase which I personally knew violated the OBD certification which I had spent months working to get for the subject vehicle. That's an example of the dealership, being and independent business doing something that the OEM parent could not.

 

[EVRider-FL]

Just curious, how does Tesla handle the battery warranty if you have another company upgrade the pack?

 

[Aggmeister2010]

Just curious, how does Tesla handle the battery warranty if you have another company upgrade the pack?

If someone opens it, your warranty is voided.

 

[ucmndd]

Just curious, how does Tesla handle the battery warranty if you have another company upgrade the pack?

They don’t, obviously. You’ve voided your warranty by doing something so goofy.

 

[EVRider-FL]

They don’t, obviously. You’ve voided your warranty by doing something so goofy.

I figured as much. If Tesla offered a battery upgrade, they would have to provide some kind of warranty, so maybe that’s one reason they don’t offer an upgrade.

 

[maximizese]

Just curious, how does Tesla handle the battery warranty if you have another company upgrade the pack?

As others have stated, at that point:

 

[Lasttoy]

We only want upgrade for out of warranty packs. My 2013 85 pack is dead. I want a 90 pack. A guy on here got a 90 pack installed in his 85 car. My SC says they don't sell them. Then comes back and says must upgrade suspension. It's the same pack. They just want more money.