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Why don't we have (more) curbside charging for EVs?
- Thread starter Mockingbird
- Start date
ATPMSD
Active Member
Who is going to pay for the installation?
Who is going to be responsible for administration and maintenance?
How will the users be charged?
And then there is the matter of "reserved" parking for EVs.
These are the major obstacles.
Who is going to be responsible for administration and maintenance?
How will the users be charged?
And then there is the matter of "reserved" parking for EVs.
These are the major obstacles.
There's a lot more to it than just putting chargers on poles. The power being provided to those chargers has to be run back to some nearby big power distribution unit, and all the hardware has to be maintained.
But yes, this is the solution going forward. It's a matter of time. They've been talking about these kinds of problems in Europe and UK for a while. Years. With many various solutions designed and implemented.
I'll say again, at this time don't buy an EV if you can't charge at home.
But yes, this is the solution going forward. It's a matter of time. They've been talking about these kinds of problems in Europe and UK for a while. Years. With many various solutions designed and implemented.
I'll say again, at this time don't buy an EV if you can't charge at home.
The city contracts out the work.
It's just like any other public level 2 charger except that it's on a light pole or a utility pole instead of a parking lot.
Companies like ChargePoint would be the likely suppliers.
I don't think you can reasonably reserve these spots. The best solution would be to pick a section of street where there are already a lot of EVs parking and put in charging hardware at every parking space. Getting that equipment cost down is step one. Maybe have them positioned such that one charger could reach two spots - then you only need half as many starting out, and they're half as likely to get blocked.
The big big big problem is that the cables are going to get WRECKED or stolen. Some of the EU and UK solutions are just to provide wall plugs and the car owner provides the cable. In the States that'd be providing NEMA 14-50 outlets. I think that's not a bad idea. And ChargePoint and such could still be used as the supplier / maintainer. Instead of having an attached cable with J1772 connector it would be the same other equipment but a NEMA 14-50 plug on the front of the box - run down to an RV style weatherproof box.
It's not impossible. I've seen and used street-side parking with EV charging in the past year. Mainly the issue is it's hard to make money from it, so no one is really interested in making it happen.
Doing a lot of "back of the napkin" maths, let's say they bulk-buy electricity for $0.10/kwh and resell it for $0.25/kwh. Typically charging like this is about 11kw, so that's at most 264kwh/day, or $39.6/day profit assuming maximum revenue. I'd be shocked if they got 1/10th of that. The low end of this kind of equipment's install cost looks to be about $1,500, so that would take 38 days to recoup the cost before turning a profit, assuming 24 hours per day selling the product. My guess is more like 2 to 4 hours per night at most and it takes more than a year to pay off the install, during which time the hardware has to be repaired a couple times a month from people abusing them or flat out stealing the cable.
Doing a lot of "back of the napkin" maths, let's say they bulk-buy electricity for $0.10/kwh and resell it for $0.25/kwh. Typically charging like this is about 11kw, so that's at most 264kwh/day, or $39.6/day profit assuming maximum revenue. I'd be shocked if they got 1/10th of that. The low end of this kind of equipment's install cost looks to be about $1,500, so that would take 38 days to recoup the cost before turning a profit, assuming 24 hours per day selling the product. My guess is more like 2 to 4 hours per night at most and it takes more than a year to pay off the install, during which time the hardware has to be repaired a couple times a month from people abusing them or flat out stealing the cable.
That's not any different than other public level 2 chargers.
That's hardly unique to EV chargers on street lights and utility poles.
Any public level 2 chargers would have that problem.
Yep, it's annoying and why petrol and diesel filling caps standardized just behind the rear doors. At one point in history they were putting them all over the car including under the license plate. It made it complicated to get the hose to the car without parking awkwardly or dragging the hose across the car.
That said, these kinds of L2 charging cables are often quite long and can reach all around the car. I've personally had one on the opposite corner of the car and was able to get it hooked under the front tire and rear tire and plugged into the charge port. There could also be mechanisms for cable management of these crazy long cables. Mockingbird's second picture shows how that could work.
tbee
Member
In Europe chargepoints do not have cables, only sockets, and you have to bring your own cable. That does prevent them from being cut off and stolen, but the disadvantage is that you don't know what length you need, so you purchase a long one. Unfortunately nobody added a hook to the charger, so the cable usually lays on the ground. Not great in the winter. So I recently purchased a curled one, hopefully that will prevent it from getting dirty. But sockets are still the way to go.
What I'm worried about is the wiring of e.g. the street light. The wires inside and running to the light are intended for a low power bulb. The power feed for charging a car that will come out of such a setup will be a trickle at best. Basically we need to stop looking at these things as light-with-a-chargepoint, but as chargepoints-with-a-light. And that means replacing a lot of stuff, and thus $$$.
OTOH a trickle is better than nothing at all, but how much will the installer make from a trickle.?
What I'm worried about is the wiring of e.g. the street light. The wires inside and running to the light are intended for a low power bulb. The power feed for charging a car that will come out of such a setup will be a trickle at best. Basically we need to stop looking at these things as light-with-a-chargepoint, but as chargepoints-with-a-light. And that means replacing a lot of stuff, and thus $$$.
OTOH a trickle is better than nothing at all, but how much will the installer make from a trickle.?
In the UK planning, installing, maintaining, post-vandalism repairing and policing street side chargepoints is the last thing overstretched local councils need at the moment unless it can make them a healthy income (like parking permit costs) in which case it will be a lot more expensive than home charging. That said, installing a home chargepoint isn't exactly cheap either.
In the UK it's also a bit better in that the cable is something that is stored in the car supplied by the car owner and thus replaceable and not a permanent part of the evse.
In Montreal we have thousands of street chargers with reserved spots. Cables don't get stolen and people respect the law.
Number of issues here:
1. Streetlight owners are not always one party; electric utility doesn’t own or service every pole in a given area. Therefore, hard to have a regional approach in all locales.
2. Existing Streetlight circuits don’t have enough reliability or source to provide a charger on every pole. All utilities and providers have different minimums on source power requirements pending light type, location, etc.
3. Agree with the theft and vandalism piece…most streetlights are targets not only for vandals but also crappy drivers.
I could go on and on….
Hope there is some language in the BBB plan to help encourage legislation and standardization for this convenance (chargers on streetlights).
1. Streetlight owners are not always one party; electric utility doesn’t own or service every pole in a given area. Therefore, hard to have a regional approach in all locales.
2. Existing Streetlight circuits don’t have enough reliability or source to provide a charger on every pole. All utilities and providers have different minimums on source power requirements pending light type, location, etc.
3. Agree with the theft and vandalism piece…most streetlights are targets not only for vandals but also crappy drivers.
I could go on and on….
Hope there is some language in the BBB plan to help encourage legislation and standardization for this convenance (chargers on streetlights).
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