finance with what money??? There already in pretty bad shape financially. They probably only are releasing a Mach -e to keep the stock from going to $1 a share.
they sell big gas and diesel pickups why do think they would change?
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Why not buy a Mustang Mach-E?
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finance with what money??? There already in pretty bad shape financially. They probably only are releasing a Mach -e to keep the stock from going to $1 a share.
they sell big gas and diesel pickups why do think they would change?
Biased video in my opinion - not mentioning $7500 federal and state incentive (Tesla will not get state incentives in particular states like Texas). MME price in Texas will be lower than MY by 1K. There are many other statements that are wrong, especially about ADAS (Autopilot).
MXLRplus
Active Member
This is not a site to discuss EV technology, it a site to market TSLA. It's the only brand of car I know of with most of the enthusiast content on the web is stock speculation.
It's embarrassing to own a Tesla sometimes. People will think I hate cars and country people.
Personal experience. I have 2 cars, ICE and EV. I live in Austin, TX, the price of a gallon is less than $1.7 per gallon. Electricity is 12c per kWh.
Driving EV is about half the price of the gas (home charging only). My ICE SUV drives more than 20 miles per gallon. 12K miles per year on ICE cost me about $1,000. For EV it will be 3 miles per kWh, $480. So each year I save $520, less than 50$ per month. This is negligible. If you use supercharges - the cost of driving per mile will become the same as gas.
I try to have cars for 3-4 years and have a full warranty + maintenance covered during these years. You get a very decent ICE car for 50K,
with good looking interior and safety features, including ADAS L2.5. So comparing apples to apples, I choose EV because it is fun to drive, but definitely not because it is cheaper.
P.S. If you leave in CA, drive 30k miles per year, want to own the car for 8 years - it will be a different story of course.
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Reeler
Decade of Pure EV Driving
Ford doesn't need one because they went with a standards-based solution, CCS. There are more of these supercharging stations than Tesla has with good cross-country routes too. You have to sign-up for a few popular charging brands is the only difference. There are good apps that show all the chargers across brand like Plugshare. Google is even integrating this information into their map app.
Folks need to stop saying Tesla has supercharging exclusively. It was a selling point in years past, but you will soon find out having only Tesla/Chademo supercharging options has its limits in crowded cities and holiday weekends. Telsa already started using a standards-based charge port in Europe and other parts of the world. It is only North America that is gimped with the proprietary 'lightning' connector.
NorCal1
Member
However, the difference is that a Tesla can charge at most any charger, whereas others cant use the Superchargers. Not to mention the obvious speed. I have made many several hundred mile trips in my MY and if it was a different EV, without the option for a Supercharger, the trips would not be practical due to the time required to charge. Even if other manufactures increase the range to 500-600 miles, having the inability to use a super charger reduces the practicality of the car. Just my humble opinion.
rxlawdude
Active Member
I therefore challenged your general statement that an EV is not, over ownership years, markedly cheaper in TCO.
You're using a constrained scenario: cheap gas and selling at 4yrs with huge depreciation losses - to make a general assertion. That's just not at all typical. And you didn't take into account solar energy installations in owners' homes.
I don't think the majority of EV owners and wanna-be-owners are getting an EV to save money. I know going in the car won't necessarily save me money over my ICE cars. I think most of us are doing this to lower our carbon footprint, at least that's my take on it. Is an EV fun to drive? Yes, instant torque is awesome, but I also love the sound of my exhaust on my sports car. There's nothing like hearing a nicely tuned exhaust screaming through a tunnel putting me in a fantasy Monaco F1 tunnel scene. hahah.
But I have kids and I do believe we humans have negatively impacted our environment with many decades of spewing burned fossil fuels into the air. EVs will be a very tiny step in the right direction, but it's the least I can do for now for my kids and their kids' futures. (we are all doomed!!!!)
Ford's have never excited me. I've had to drive Ford's at work for the past 28 years. They make a great pickup truck, I'll give them that, but I have no use for a full size gas truck. Why do people use full size trucks as daily drivers????? UGH!!! I can't see past or around your behemoth!!!!! hahahahaha
I think the real EV competition will come from new upstarts like others have said. Lucid looks like they are very close to realeasing their Model S competition, and with 517 miles of range they're sending a real shot across the bow of Tesla, and that's a good thing for the consumer.
So I'm not considering a Mach E. While I never wanted to own a Nissan, the Ariya looks intriguing. I was about to put a deposit down on a Polestar 2, that is until I saw the listed dimensions and realized it's too small compared to the MY. So for me there is still nothing but Tesla itself barring me from taking delivery of a MY.
But I have kids and I do believe we humans have negatively impacted our environment with many decades of spewing burned fossil fuels into the air. EVs will be a very tiny step in the right direction, but it's the least I can do for now for my kids and their kids' futures. (we are all doomed!!!!)
Ford's have never excited me. I've had to drive Ford's at work for the past 28 years. They make a great pickup truck, I'll give them that, but I have no use for a full size gas truck. Why do people use full size trucks as daily drivers????? UGH!!! I can't see past or around your behemoth!!!!! hahahahaha
I think the real EV competition will come from new upstarts like others have said. Lucid looks like they are very close to realeasing their Model S competition, and with 517 miles of range they're sending a real shot across the bow of Tesla, and that's a good thing for the consumer.
So I'm not considering a Mach E. While I never wanted to own a Nissan, the Ariya looks intriguing. I was about to put a deposit down on a Polestar 2, that is until I saw the listed dimensions and realized it's too small compared to the MY. So for me there is still nothing but Tesla itself barring me from taking delivery of a MY.
rxlawdude
Active Member
The experience of most long-term Tesla owners would disagree, unless you are comparing to a Prius or high MPG other hybrid, have cheap gas (you're also in California so that's not a factor) and the worst electrical utility rates.
But I do laud you for articulating the environmental reasons for moving to all EVs.
Yeah I’m sure I can save money overall, but I’d rather be pleasantly surprised than mildly disappointed. Lol
And like I said, I’m going EV for reasons other than saving money.
now how do we get all these smoke spewing full size diesels as daily driver off the roads?
hahah
my generation we souped up late 60s early 70s hot rods.
Then came the small Japanese imports that the young generation customized. Today’s “kids” seem to want full sized diesel pickups as the cool car to have. Ugh
And like I said, I’m going EV for reasons other than saving money.
now how do we get all these smoke spewing full size diesels as daily driver off the roads?
hahah
my generation we souped up late 60s early 70s hot rods.
Then came the small Japanese imports that the young generation customized. Today’s “kids” seem to want full sized diesel pickups as the cool car to have. Ugh
NorCal1
Member
I don't mean this rudely, but this thread seems to be going off topic? Would be nice to get it back to discussing the topic. 
I don't believe there will be a serious competition to Tesla at mass scale for next 5 years. Very simple reason is the vast and fast charging network Tesla has. I love Audi's. Didn't even consider Etron simply because I don't want the hassle of trying to find a charger on a long trip (plus the lower range).
One of the two things need to happen for other EV manufacturers to compete with Tesla
1. Wait for the market to build a charging network convenient and big enough that the concern I raised becomes irrelevant (like the gas stations we have today for ICE)
2. Build their own charging network
Not enough signals in the market either of these two things happening for the foreseeable future.
I don't mean Mustang or other well done EVs won't sell. Of course it will to some extent, mostly for those who won't plan to use it for road trips. And that will limit their sales materially.
I don't mean this rudely, but this thread seems to be going off topic? Would be nice to get it back to discussing the topic.
I don’t take it as being rude at all, but I think the question of picking a MachE over a MY has been answered every which way.
I’m surprised this thread is as long as it is even with my posts veering off topic.
how about a thread of MY vs MachE, Polestar2, Ariya, ETron, iPace and the iDCrozz (or whatever VAG calls it)?
I’m not a Tesla fan boy and I still won’t pick the field over the MY
Good point. Tesla will be forced to create a CCS adapter for NA in the future. Ford hopefully will have unified pricing that is much cheaper than regular EA and EVgo pricing. I see that major brands like GM, Ford, VW and others will do the same.
Well, even in CA, where the price of galon is $2.76 now you will save only about $850 a year. Let say 1000 USD if price will go up. 8 years to break even, considering the fact that EV (in general) cost about 8-10k more that ICE equivalent. Solar energy can be taken into consideration only if you already paid for it, and this alone take about 7 years and mostly not worth it unless you buy a house with it already installed. Buying EV and solar energy is not profitable in first 5-8 years. We do that due to other reasons. Btw, on average, American family will change their place of living every 7-10 years. If you have a different calculation - I will be glad to see it.
None of the ICE - EV comparisons here seem to take into account maintenance / repair cost.
BTW: Getting solar is always worth it (at least in CA, other states could have way lower electricity rates) as it increases the price of your house when you sell (and very likely makes it easier to sell). Assuming the solar is owned, not leased.
BTW: Getting solar is always worth it (at least in CA, other states could have way lower electricity rates) as it increases the price of your house when you sell (and very likely makes it easier to sell). Assuming the solar is owned, not leased.
rxlawdude
Active Member
8 years to break even on fuel. You ignore all additional associated costs with an ICE, as well as the FACT that Teslas (especially the M3, too soon to tell for MY) hold resale value much better than ICE vehicles.
And enjoy that ephemeral $2.76/gal gas while you can. Gasoline prices are extremely volatile, while electric utility rates are generally consistent for years with incremental adjustments.
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I do not ignore ICE associated costs - I mentioned that maintenance and warranty for my ICE car's are usually 4 years. So nothing will be paid in 4 years. After that - you are right, but Tesla will be out of warranty as well, and things may fail even in Tesla.
As for gas costs - you are right, they are volatile, unpredictable, but even with $4 per gallon, you will need to own EV for ~5 years to break even. Long time, many things may happen.
As for car value - it is even more unpredictable for EV. What will happen if Tesla will come (and they will) with new chemistry and 500 miles per pack? All old EV's will devaluate very quickly. Cars are the worst investment - they never appreciate, they only depreciate (unless you believe in robotaxi that will not happen in the near future).
But it is ok that we have a different opinion on this! We share one thing in common - we like owning and driving EV, despite all this crap I mentioned
rxlawdude
Active Member
I've never seen 4 years of maintenance included in any new car I've owned, but for those who trade when warranties/maintenance ends, you are correct - the ROI will not pan out. Of course, it ignores depreciation, just to add one more dimension to the analysis.
But peace out, bro, we're both looking out for the future.
During my early-summer car shopping that culminated in buying a LRAWD / no FSD MY, I was looking for a medium size S/CUV that I’m planning to keep for at least six years (i.e., somewhere between 60-80 thousand miles minimum). I won’t go into details of my requirements, but I think they were reasonable for my family. When I started shopping, a Tesla wasn’t even on my radar. In the end, the main competitor to the MY was the Audi Q5; I also looked at the Q3 and the Mazda CX-5, but neither had the back seat legroom I required. Having good quickness was a key requirement, and surprisingly enough, that ruled out a lot of vehicles in the medium sized C/SUV market.
The Q5 and MY are comparable in price, especially when the EV incentives are considered. The Q5 is quite a nice vehicle, arguably a step up from the MY in luxury terms; unfortunately, I’m quite familiar with the maintenance requirements and costs that come with that class of vehicle. Audi does not have any complimentary service; you can buy discounts on scheduled service, but it’s still not cheap, and you can count on a full brake job every 35,000 to 40,000 miles, at about $2000 a pop. The transmission service, which I believe is also every 40,000 miles, will also run several hundred dollars at least. On the Tesla side, three really isn’t scheduled maintenance per se; there’s tire rotation and replacement and brake fluid changes, but with good use of regen braking, I’d expect the brakes on the MY to last at least twice as long as on the Q5. Advantage Tesla, unless it turns out to be unreliable outside of the warranty period. My rough estimate is that, over six years, the MY comes out ahead on required maintenance by about $4000.
As far as fuel costs go: I haven’t seen premium (which the Audi requires) going for less than $3.40 per gallon around here, even in the depths of the gas price cuts. And it will go back up. But for sake of argument, let’s say it stabilizes at $3.50 per gallon in coastal SoCal. Home recharging is $0.09 per kWh with a $16/month service fee. Assuming 1000 miles per month at 280 kWh per mile (what I’ve been getting), and 95% of the time I can recharge at home and a Supercharger for the rest, and my pre-Tesla electricity use wouldn’t cover the $16 per month fee, then my “fuel” costs for the MY per month is about $44 per month, or $525 per year. In a real-world mix on 80% city / 20% highway, the Q5 will get about 22 mi/gal at best, so that’s $160 per month or just over $1900 per year, so over six years, I’m saving $8300 on fuel.
Other costs - insurance, registration, and consumables like tires - are pretty much a wash. If I subtract the $1200 for the HPWC and its installation, then I’m looking at about a $10,000 difference in TCO between the MY and the Q5 over my six-year timeframe. Even if I only realize half of that, it’s nothing to sneeze at. Yes, the comparison would have been different if I could have chosen a cheaper ICE car than the Q5 to compare against the MY, but I couldn’t find one that would meet my requirements. YMMV of course, but doesn’t it always?
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