Why regenerative braking belongs on the brake pedal

[F_T_K]

... It's common for Prius owners to go for over 100,000 miles in the car between brake jobs...

I've got almost 120k miles on my Prius, and my brakes are still over 70%.

Back almost 40 years ago when I was learning to drive, I was taught the "caution habit" - when traffic situations look wonky, to take the foot off the accelerator and rest it on the brake pedal. That way if you need to brake hard there is less delay than having to move your foot from one pedal to the other. It's a good habit, and one of the reasons I've been able to over a half-million miles without an accident.

It's going to be difficult to change that habit if I'm forced to drive with max regen.

 

[mspohr]

I've got almost 120k miles on my Prius, and my brakes are still over 70%.

Back almost 40 years ago when I was learning to drive, I was taught the "caution habit" - when traffic situations look wonky, to take the foot off the accelerator and rest it on the brake pedal. That way if you need to brake hard there is less delay than having to move your foot from one pedal to the other. It's a good habit, and one of the reasons I've been able to over a half-million miles without an accident.

It's going to be difficult to change that habit if I'm forced to drive with max regen.

Better stick with the Prius.

 

[Ciaopec]

I've got almost 120k miles on my Prius, and my brakes are still over 70%.

Back almost 40 years ago when I was learning to drive, I was taught the "caution habit" - when traffic situations look wonky, to take the foot off the accelerator and rest it on the brake pedal. That way if you need to brake hard there is less delay than having to move your foot from one pedal to the other. It's a good habit, and one of the reasons I've been able to over a half-million miles without an accident.

It's going to be difficult to change that habit if I'm forced to drive with max regen.

Don't use max regen. I plan to use the low setting (tomorrow when I pick up my MS) as it is most like the regen I get from my Toyota hybrid (Lexus GS450h). You can still let your foot "hover" in front of the brake pedal to keep up your 500000 mile club. Ditto brake wear on the Lexus; ditto at least 500000 accident free miles. Unfortunately, people use their brakes too much. Especially highway driving. I try to drive far enough ahead ( two, three, or more cars ahead) so I can adjust spacing/speed without the use of brakes. Regen is perfect way (IMHO) to assist with that. Too many brakes; too many brake lights cause too many backups and accidents.

 

[SDRick]

I've got almost 120k miles on my Prius, and my brakes are still over 70%.

It's going to be difficult to change that habit if I'm forced to drive with max regen.

I believe you will feel comfortable with maximum regeneration in no time. The feeling is quite intuitive. You will soon realize that once you release all the pressure off the "gas" the car will slow down fast enough that moving your foot towards the brake will feel superfluous.

 

[rhyd]

Tesla have nailed it. They limit regen to 60kw (around 80bhp) which simply isn't enough power to destablise the rear tyres under normal conditions. If the car is being thrown around a bend then the traction control is very capable (I know because I've experienced it on a number of occasions) so there really isn't a safety concern. As soon as the inside tyre breaks free, the traction control immediately feathers the power to ensure both tyres can regain grip.
Once you have tried regen on the throttle, you will never want to go back. It is no different to having a car with big ICE engine in a lower gear. The safety concerns are simply about rear-wheel drive. If someone is pretty clueless about handling, and needs maximum safety to allow for driving too fast on snow/ice then they should buy a dual motor or front wheel drive car. Exactly the same advice for someone buying an ICE car. My mother used to have a RWD Lotus, and she managed to invoke trailing throttle oversteer in that car on two occasions, once in the wet, once in the dry. Nowadays she drives a RWD car with more torque, but it has stability control...problem solved. So the rest of us can enjoy the transformational experience of enjoying a car that doesn't require you to move your foot over to another pedal for 95% of the time. Seriously it is phenominal ...similar fun to riding an overpowered motorcyle.

 

[Twiglett]

Wow
Does this thread qualify to be walking dead?
It’s almost two years old

 

[bhzmark]

Wow
Does this thread qualify to be walking dead?
It’s almost two years old

Better than starting a new thread on same topic.

 

[mspohr]

Wow
Does this thread qualify to be walking dead?
It’s almost two years old

There is no "right" answer, just opinions.
This discussion will never end so best to have a place for people to vent.

 

[Twiglett]

very true - but I doubt anyone posting now has bothered to read the preceding 17 pages of personal opinions

 

[mspohr]

very true - but I doubt anyone posting now has bothered to read the preceding 17 pages of personal opinions

Well, of course not, that's why the discussion continues...

 

[ℬête Noire]

very true - but I doubt anyone posting now has bothered to read the preceding 17 pages of personal opinions

I started to, then quickly concluded "Well this is dumb. How do I make a thread invisible so I never see it again?"

Unfortunately so far I've failed in that search for a solution.

 

[GoTslaGo]

I started to, then quickly concluded "Well this is dumb. How do I make a thread invisible so I never see it again?"

Unfortunately so far I've failed in that search for a solution.

Well, since you posted on the thread, the software will automatically give you thread updates and alerts. You can hit the “unwatch thread” button in the upper right hand corner—above the top post on this page.

This will take it off of your followed list and you will no longer get any active notifications of this thread. The thread will still exist, obviously, but you won’t be notified of any changes.

 

[nvx1977]

I actually did learn something from the OP's website article (recover from oversteer condition with throttle, not braking). Not in agreement with his ergonomics/human factors argument. Accelerator for go, brake pedal for stop is a broad simplification of how we actually utilize the pedals. Regen is just an amplification of transmission friction, an existing means of decelerating via the "go pedal," so it is not a new pattern for people, especially people who leveraged clutch braking with manual transmissions. And it's hard to make the ergonomics argument when so many people love regen on the accelerator. To further make the point, one could argue that by taking away physical buttons from a smartphone, we've violated serious traditional interaction patterns. But it would be a seriously flawed argument. The new paradigm does have some disadvantages (no tactile feedback from a slab of glass) but the advantages are massive (unrestricted user interface possibilities).

I like being able to distinguish between regen and friction braking, something that would be impossible when integrated with the "stop pedal."

 

[david_42]

Having to hold the throttle in a specific position to actually coast without regen seems like a royal pain, particularly in heavy traffic. I've driven manual transmissions most of my life and as more gears became available and engines got smaller, engine braking (which would be similar in effect to throttle regen) became a minor consideration. Also, our Model 3 will not be our only car and having to deal with radically different response patterns is not cool.

 

[jgs]

Having to hold the throttle in a specific position to actually coast without regen seems like a royal pain, particularly in heavy traffic. I've driven manual transmissions most of my life and as more gears became available and engines got smaller, engine braking (which would be similar in effect to throttle regen) became a minor consideration. Also, our Model 3 will not be our only car and having to deal with radically different response patterns is not cool.

I drive a Model S and a manual GTI. In my experience neither of the things you are expressing concern about is a problem. YMMV of course.

 

[Skidmark]

I like the "one pedal driving" style of having accelerator based regeneration. I only wish the regen could be stronger and also work to bring the car to a complete stop (like a Chevy Bolt).

I've owned a Camry Hybrid and one thing I disliked was going through the dryer of an automatic car wash when you needed to creep through very slowly...the brake pedal was like an on/off switch, either completely stopping the car or allowing the car to go too fast through the dryer.

 

[Evoforce]

Try switching between a Leaf and a Tesla. One you gradually apply the brake pedal and the other you just let your foot off the accelerator and try to guesstimate distance so you don't have to use the brake (or just barely).

 

[Electroman]

Coming from a Leaf I miss, the regen on brakes. Leaf does both.

I love the one pedal driving, but Teslas are wasting energy by not capturing energy back during braking.

 

[Evoforce]

Coming from a Leaf I miss, the regen on brakes. Leaf does both.

I love the one pedal driving, but Teslas are wasting energy by not capturing energy back during braking.

It depends on the year of your Leaf. Neither of mine have the dual option.

 

[Tyl]

Stumbling through this thread .....

Regen has Nothing to do with the brakes.

It’s a function of the transmission.

Yes the car slows but not because of the brakes. It’s slowing..... so it’s called braking.

When you step on the brakes, the calipers hydraulically pinch the discs attached to the wheels to slow the car down. Nothing about stepping on the brake pedal gives you any regerative energy or..... regen!