Why you should skip the powered frunk and grab a Satonic soft close frunk

[johnnyruz]

So I’m was also a bit scared myself but I went ahead with the installation anyway this afternoon for a few reasons.

I have the Tlyard version of the mechanism which has the motor integrated with the body of the mechanism. You connect the small cable from the motor to the factory switch and when activated it pulls the latch pulls down to engage.

I did some bench-testing and the operation is that when engaged, the motor spins until it hits a stop and then reverses the tension. I think the control box is just sensing the spike in current from the motor when it hits the end of travel on the “pull” stroke and then initiates the reverse action. This is where I was getting spooked because based on the failure description from @ngng it sounds like at some point his unit triggered the “pull” signal but hit the end of travel and never sent the “retract” signal which I’m guessing pulled too much current and blew the fuse, so the unit was dead with the cable fully tensioned. I simulated this failure on the bench by turning off power at the bottom of the cycle and it definitely locked up with the cable under tension. However, even in this state I was able to manually pull the cable and rotate the motor to the “released” position with minimal force. So I think in the event of a similar failure, the force of the factory spring release mechanism when unlatching is enough to pull the motor in the reverse direction and release its hold. Or I would maybe need to put just a bit of force when opening it the frunk to retract the pull cable.

If I get some time I may actually try to test this in the car by manually initiating a close but then disconnect power at the bottom of the pull stroke. Then pop the frunk and see if the factory latch still releases.

If that’s the case, the only way I could see my version locking up would be if the motor got stuck permanently receiving the pull signal but the controller did not successfully release, but in that case I would think it would result in a blown inline fuse killing power to the motor and allowing the frunk to open normally. I’ll update if I get a chance to perform this test.

On the install, it went very smooth and is working extremely well. I skipped the install of the “patch” as I’m still not sure of its purpose. But if anyone here knows for sure it’s a great idea to install it I’ll go back and put it in.

Also, I put some heat-shrink tubing on the “arm” of the soft close just so there is no metal-to-metal contact as the hood latches.

 

[richyrich]

So, GUESS WHAT HAPPENED! The Satonic kit failed and I spent the past 4 hours gaining access to the frunk. I know how I solved the problem, but I'm not sure what happened. More info soon. I stand by my original statement that the kit will fail safe in the event of a dead motor, however, there is another failure that obviously will cause a major headache.

Yeah I saw a similar post somewhere else so you’re not alone. Definitely makes me hesitate on getting it. I keep my charging adapters etc in the trunk so getting shut out would suck, especially since we have proper winter here.

 

[Jhom]

So I’m was also a bit scared myself but I went ahead with the installation anyway this afternoon for a few reasons.

I have the Tlyard version of the mechanism which has the motor integrated with the body of the mechanism. You connect the small cable from the motor to the factory switch and when activated it pulls the latch pulls down to engage.

I did some bench-testing and the operation is that when engaged, the motor spins until it hits a stop and then reverses the tension. I think the control box is just sensing the spike in current from the motor when it hits the end of travel on the “pull” stroke and then initiates the reverse action. This is where I was getting spooked because based on the failure description from @ngng it sounds like at some point his unit triggered the “pull” signal but hit the end of travel and never sent the “retract” signal which I’m guessing pulled too much current and blew the fuse, so the unit was dead with the cable fully tensioned. I simulated this failure on the bench by turning off power at the bottom of the cycle and it definitely locked up with the cable under tension. However, even in this state I was able to manually pull the cable and rotate the motor to the “released” position with minimal force. So I think in the event of a similar failure, the force of the factory spring release mechanism when unlatching is enough to pull the motor in the reverse direction and release its hold. Or I would maybe need to put just a bit of force when opening it the frunk to retract the pull cable.

If I get some time I may actually try to test this in the car by manually initiating a close but then disconnect power at the bottom of the pull stroke. Then pop the frunk and see if the factory latch still releases.

If that’s the case, the only way I could see my version locking up would be if the motor got stuck permanently receiving the pull signal but the controller did not successfully release, but in that case I would think it would result in a blown inline fuse killing power to the motor and allowing the frunk to open normally. I’ll update if I get a chance to perform this test.

On the install, it went very smooth and is working extremely well. I skipped the install of the “patch” as I’m still not sure of its purpose. But if anyone here knows for sure it’s a great idea to install it I’ll go back and put it in.

Also, I put some heat-shrink tubing on the “arm” of the soft close just so there is no metal-to-metal contact as the hood latches.

I would be very interested in your findings. My install also went smoothly and it has been working well. The only hitch is the 90 second recapture feature is inconsistent. According to Tlyard the patch is to improve this feature. I haven't found the improvement. My observations of the patch is that it moves the OEM spring catch back some when the latch is released. But, I'm not sure it does anything positive.

Given @ngng recent failure, I've removed the Tlyard for now until I understand the limits of the soft close lock. As I see it, if the Tlyard fails to release tension on the OEM latch then we would be in a greater world of hurt than what happened with the Satonic version. With the Satonic version, you can eventually get access to cut the cable to release the tension. With the Tlyard version, I don't see how you can get access to the cable and cut it.

One other issue I've found with my installation is the amount of hood striker contact with the Tlyard actuator arm. In my case the hood striker just touches the arm. I believe it should make greater contact across the arm than it does. I've noticed some paint loss on the front side of the arm indicating that the striker is slipping down in front of the arm. I had also put some heat shrink tubing on the arm but there is now some slight tearing on the front side of the tubing. Given the freeplay of the arm, it is only a matter of time before it fails to make contact.

 

[ngng]

I would be very interested in your findings. My install also went smoothly and it has been working well. The only hitch is the 90 second recapture feature is inconsistent. According to Tlyard the patch is to improve this feature. I haven't found the improvement. My observations of the patch is that it moves the OEM spring catch back some when the latch is released. But, I'm not sure it does anything positive.

Given @ngng recent failure, I've removed the Tlyard for now until I understand the limits of the soft close lock. As I see it, if the Tlyard fails to release tension on the OEM latch then we would be in a greater world of hurt than what happened with the Satonic version. With the Satonic version, you can eventually get access to cut the cable to release the tension. With the Tlyard version, I don't see how you can get access to the cable and cut it.

One other issue I've found with my installation is the amount of hood striker contact with the Tlyard actuator arm. In my case the hood striker just touches the arm. I believe it should make greater contact across the arm than it does. I've noticed some paint loss on the front side of the arm indicating that the striker is slipping down in front of the arm. I had also put some heat shrink tubing on the arm but there is some slight tearing on the front side of the tubing. Given the freeplay of the arm, it is only a matter of time before it fails to make contact.

Can you post some photos of your unit? I'm headed to the shop in a bit and will do some disassembly.

 

[Jhom]

Can you post some photos of your unit? I'm headed to the shop in a bit and will do some disassembly.

Sorry to hear about the failure. Here are some pix of my Tlyard unit.

 

[amoney805]

Sorry to hear about the failure. Here are some pix of my Tlyard unit.

Looks identical to the one I installed from KAIER on AE. Theyre probably all the same.

 

[bzobzo]

Interestingly, there is now a V1Plus version on the Satonic Aliexpress page, and it looks to have a manual release going to the motor of the soft release itself. The pull mechanism looks like the V2, connecting to the factory latch.

 

[towndrunk]

Sorry to hear about the failure. Here are some pix of my Tlyard unit.

I just opened my box for my Model X and it looks identical to yours. Mine's called CATRONICS NAVMAKER.

 

[David99]

Interestingly, there is now a V1Plus version on the Satonic Aliexpress page, and it looks to have a manual release going to the motor of the soft release itself. The pull mechanism looks like the V2, connecting to the factory latch.


View attachment 1012883

Is that for the Model Y? The version for the Model Y has no cables, just the motor directly on the bracket. The one for the 3 and S has the longer cables.
Where would that manual release hoop go? If that is accessible while the frunk is closed, wouldn't that be a safety issue?

 

[bzobzo]

Is that for the Model Y? The version for the Model Y has no cables, just the motor directly on the bracket. The one for the 3 and S has the longer cables.
Where would that manual release hoop go? If that is accessible while the frunk is closed, wouldn't that be a safety issue?

Not sure, it was just a generic picture in the listing. Though all the MY versions I've seen have cables going to a separate motor/control unit.

As far as the manual release goes, I don't think it would stay attached to the motorized soft close cable since it would inaccessible. I would route it somewhere accessible from outside the car. And if designed sensibly, I would hope the manual release would only disengage the soft close cable and not actually open the frunk so that there wouldn't be a security issue but allowing the regular release to operate if the soft close mechanism jammed.

 

[ngng]

Sorry to hear about the failure. Here are some pix of my Tlyard unit.

It happens, no biggie. Hopefully the group can come up with a good fix!

Re: your unit. What does the pull do? Does it release the internal tension of the motor, or does it do something else?

 

[ngng]

Interestingly, there is now a V1Plus version on the Satonic Aliexpress page, and it looks to have a manual release going to the motor of the soft release itself. The pull mechanism looks like the V2, connecting to the factory latch.


View attachment 1012883

These manufacturers need to test their products lol. V1, V2, V1+...how about now making products with failure cases as an after thought. It's almost like they're throwing these emergency pull handles to make their products look robust.

I'm not sure how this emergency pull would actually work? What is it doing internally?

 

[robd]

These manufacturers need to test their products lol. V1, V2, V1+...how about now making products with failure cases as an after thought. It's almost like they're throwing these emergency pull handles to make their products look robust.

I'm not sure how this emergency pull would actually work? What is it doing internally?

Did you report this to Satonic? Curious as to their reply

 

[ngng]

Did you report this to Satonic? Curious as to their reply

Yeah, I sent them a message through their AE storefront yesterday. I'll report back once they respond.

 

[Jhom]

It happens, no biggie. Hopefully the group can come up with a good fix!

Re: your unit. What does the pull do? Does it release the internal tension of the motor, or does it do something else?

As previously described by @johnnyrz, the pull draws down the OEM latch to the locked position and then reverses to release the cable to the original opened latch length. The design of the Tlyard is similar to an electric winch. The cable is wound around a spool that is directly attached to the shaft of the soft close motor.

 

[Jhom]

Looks identical to the one I installed from KAIER on AE. Theyre probably all the same.

The Tlyard is probably the same as many of the AE offerings. The difference is that the Tlyard has a 2 year warranty and costs twice or more than the AE offerings. I doubt it is any better than the others.

 

[ngng]

As previously described by @johnnyrz, the pull draws down the OEM latch to the locked position and then reverses to release the cable to the original opened latch length. The design of the Tlyard is similar to an electric winch. The cable is wound around a spool that is directly attached to the shaft of the soft close motor.

Ah yeah, a similar design flaw then like he posted.

 

[johnnyruz]

I took some time tonight to tear everything back apart and run some tests on my soft-close unit - short version of the story is its good news with the version I have!

I keep mentioning Tlyard because it's easy to lookup - but in reality, mine was purchased directly from AE and is labeled as the Cartronics Navmaker version that someone else mentioned. I'm pretty sure it's the exact unit that Tlyard is selling at a premium (with the benefit of the warranty - nothing against them at all!).

Anyway - I powered the soft-close unit from an external switchable power supply and did some tests:

1. Normal operation
2. Killed power at the very bottom of the "pull" and then remaining OFF when I tried to unlatch the frunk
3. Killed power at the very bottom of the "pull", then restoring power to the soft-close unit and unlatch the frunk

I'm happy to say in all three cases I was still able to open the frunk using the app. It appears the Tesla unlatch sequence has enough reverse force on the latch to tug on the cable of the soft close mechanism and pull the motor in the reverse direction allowing the latch to open normally. In one case I did have to trigger it twice to return the cable all the way to the resting position and open the latch, but it worked without any physical intervention. Based on these results, it gave me the confidence to put everything back together and leave it installed. I recorded video of the tests that I'll try to put together and post here once I find some editing time.

One caveat to this is that all of the testing was done with the frunk open (I wasn't that brave!) and just observing the latch behavior, so it's possible having the frunk "hook" engaged in the latch would make a difference, but just observing I don't think it would and I feel pretty safe that even if the unit fails at the worst time in the sequence I'll still be able to get in. I guess there is a catastrophic scenario where the motor completely locks up internally and physically can't rotate, but I'm able to tolerate that risk.

 

[ngng]

I took some time tonight to tear everything back apart and run some tests on my soft-close unit - short version of the story is its good news with the version I have!

I keep mentioning Tlyard because it's easy to lookup - but in reality, mine was purchased directly from AE and is labeled as the Cartronics Navmaker version that someone else mentioned. I'm pretty sure it's the exact unit that Tlyard is selling at a premium (with the benefit of the warranty - nothing against them at all!).

Anyway - I powered the soft-close unit from an external switchable power supply and did some tests:

1. Normal operation
2. Killed power at the very bottom of the "pull" and then remaining OFF when I tried to unlatch the frunk
3. Killed power at the very bottom of the "pull", then restoring power to the soft-close unit and unlatch the frunk

I'm happy to say in all three cases I was still able to open the frunk using the app. It appears the Tesla unlatch sequence has enough reverse force on the latch to tug on the cable of the soft close mechanism and pull the motor in the reverse direction allowing the latch to open normally. In one case I did have to trigger it twice to return the cable all the way to the resting position and open the latch, but it worked without any physical intervention. Based on these results, it gave me the confidence to put everything back together and leave it installed. I recorded video of the tests that I'll try to put together and post here once I find some editing time.

One caveat to this is that all of the testing was done with the frunk open (I wasn't that brave!) and just observing the latch behavior, so it's possible having the frunk "hook" engaged in the latch would make a difference, but just observing I don't think it would and I feel pretty safe that even if the unit fails at the worst time in the sequence I'll still be able to get in. I guess there is a catastrophic scenario where the motor completely locks up internally and physically can't rotate, but I'm able to tolerate that risk.

Thanks for taking the time to test, all very interesting. Adding a few notes from my initial tear down on the Satonic kit. Bullet points which I'll summarize once I'm totally done taking everything apart.

- I noticed water dripping out of the tubing that covers the power wires and the pull wire itself. Pictured below, it's the long cable that connects the latch to the motor unit..

- The pos/neg cables were exposed and a terrible heatshrink applied to them

- The "potting" on the blue electronic control box had visible separation between the box and the potting.

I have not yet taken apart the motor unit, but I'm curious if there is water inside there. There appear to be two arears with water ingress: within the protective cable sleeve and the blue control box. Given what I have seen, I'm wondering if a short on the control wire (?) that runs between the motor and the latch somehow caused the motor to continue torquing itself until it overdrew the supply fuse. Or, maybe it's all a red herring?

 

[bzobzo]

I have not yet taken apart the motor unit, but I'm curious if there is water inside there. There appear to be two arears with water ingress: within the protective cable sleeve and the blue control box. Given what I have seen, I'm wondering if a short on the control wire (?) that runs between the motor and the latch somehow caused the motor to continue torquing itself until it overdrew the supply fuse. Or, maybe it's all a red herring?

When you were first trying to open the frunk, is it possible that the water was frozen in the cable housing, immobilizing the cable? At least for the Tlyard unit that johnnyruz tested, it doesn't sound like a dead motor or electronics would impede the cable from releasing. Is the cable free to move now that everything is melted?