Will AWD be bundled with Smart Air Suspension(SAS)?

[boiler81]

I recall that Elon tweeted that SAS will be "linked" to AWD. After viewing the Tesla Model 3 Stripped - Part 2 - The Dark Side (at 4:12 min into video), it appear the RWD cars are "AWD ready" with the exception of the front struts, which block installation of AWD half shafts to the front wheels. This gets me wondering if the SAS will be installed in all AWD models as the intended means to replace the obstructing RWD model front strut.

Since Tesla wants to maximize margins it would make sense from a business standpoint to bundle these and price them above what they could get for the AWD alone. I could see them bundling these options and charging $6000 for the bundled option, which would be $1000 less then they were offered separately on the MS. Thoughts?

 

[zer0cool]

I hope not since AS is not sporty. Since they want to make a Performance version out of the AWD car, should not bundle with AS.

 

[T34ME]

I hope not since AS is not sporty. Since they want to make a Performance version out of the AWD car, should not bundle with AS.

Isn't the MS P100D an AWD and is it considered a Performance car and a "sporty" car?

I think SAS will be bundled with AWD on the model 3 and will be priced the same or slightly less than the MS version. I NEED SAS, I don't need AWD, but I will take the bundled package anyway, the AWD will likely get me somewhat better range too.

 

[Thomas Edison]

The only Thing we have to go off of is what Elon said. The most recent info we have is that it will be bundled.

 

[eSpiritIV]

Arnt dampeners more important in tuning a suspension than springs? That would lead me to belive that air suspension could be superior to springs in that regard if they had very good dampeners. Are there any high end cars with air suspension? Ie Ferrari, Porsche etc?

 

[03DSG]

Musk did not say SAS would be ‘bundled’ with Dual motor but ‘linked’. His tweet was:

In about six months or so. Linked to dual motor config.

 

[ℬête Noire]

Musk did not say SAS would be ‘bundled’ with Dual motor but ‘linked’. His tweet was:

In about six months or so. Linked to dual motor config.

Yeah, and given you need different suspension for AWD and SAS is almost certainly going to be the cheaper bump, I expect they are saving manufacturing hassle but requiring that you have AWD to add the SAS option. Otherwise they'd need a design and build a second separate SAS layout, for an option that's got less $ attached to it, for RWD cars.

 

[kengchang]

The teardown video shows strut blocking the front wheel; SAS might be required for AWD.

 

[03DSG]

The teardown video shows strut blocking the front wheel; SAS might be required for AWD.

SAS would not be required for AWD. You just need an offset in the lower shock assembly, be it air or spring suspension, to accommodate the front CV driveshafts.

 

[03DSG]

Yeah, and given you need different suspension for AWD and SAS is almost certainly going to be the cheaper bump, I expect they are saving manufacturing hassle but requiring that you have AWD to add the SAS option. Otherwise they'd need a design and build a second separate SAS layout, for an option that's got less $ attached to it, for RWD cars.

Agreed. As well AWD will open the window for a tow option where SAS is beneficial for load leveling.

 

[seattlite2004]

Does the Tesla SAS just adjust the ride height or does it also actively adjust dampening?

In some Porsche models, they have both of the Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) with Air Suspension and Leveling System. PASM will actively adjust "spring" dampening.

 

[CT200h]

If you look at the teardown video you will see that the current car has been engineered from the start for AWD.
the front subframe has mount tabs for the drive unit and the front Steering knuckles appear to be designed for botth RWD and AWD setups

the steering knuckle has a large whole where the CV axle and bearing would go through as a provision for the AWD
and a simple bearing/hub setup currently for the RWD build
very smart.

 

[favo]

Does the Tesla SAS just adjust the ride height or does it also actively adjust dampening?

In some Porsche models, they have both of the Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) with Air Suspension and Leveling System. PASM will actively adjust "spring" dampening.

On Model S/X, I'm pretty sure it's just ride height. Maybe an actual owner can confirm.

 

[03DSG]

Does the Tesla SAS just adjust the ride height or does it also actively adjust dampening?

In some Porsche models, they have both of the Porsche Active Suspension Management (PASM) with Air Suspension and Leveling System. PASM will actively adjust "spring" dampening.

Porsche PASM is a very sophisticated suspension system. SAS is basically air shocks with automatic and manual variable ride height with the ‘Smart’ being GPS located triggers for raising and lowering. A steep driveway enterance at home for example the car would automatically raise based on GP location.

 

[zer0cool]

PASM with AS is much much better than Tesla's AS... Panamera's PASM with AS is stable under pretty much all circumstances unlike Tesla's which is kind of floaty.

Also Porsche only puts AS on Panamera and their SUVs. They are meant to increase comfort. You won't find AS on their sports cars. BMW M3 only has springs. AS adds a lot of weight, and is mostly added for comfort reasons; doesn't make that much sense in a performance Model 3 class car.

 

[seattlite2004]

PASM with AS is much much better than Tesla's AS... Panamera's PASM with AS is stable under pretty much all circumstances unlike Tesla's which is kind of floaty.

Also Porsche only puts AS on Panamera and their SUVs. They are meant to increase comfort. You won't find AS on their sports cars. BMW M3 only has springs. AS adds a lot of weight, and is mostly added for comfort reasons; doesn't make that much sense in a performance Model 3 class car.

Right...I don't understand why anyone would want SAS on car..on the Mod X, it makes more sense. I'd rather have active suspension which automatically adjust dampening. Per the Porsche PASM description:

PASM is an electronic damping control system. It actively and continuously adjusts the damping force on each wheel, based on current road conditions and driving style. The effect is to reduce vehicle body movement and thereby improve comfort in all four seats.

Three modes are available: ‘Normal’, ‘SPORT’ and ‘SPORT PLUS’. Sensors record the body movements as they occur during powerful acceleration, braking, fast cornering or on uneven road surfaces. From these data, the control unit of the Porsche 4D Chassis Control system determines the effect on the actual driving state of the car and modifies the damping force on each of the wheels in accordance with the selected mode. The results are tangible: increased driving stability, improved comfort and enhanced performance.​

I'm thinking that PASM is gonna be available on the Mission E...maybe also with air suspension...but it'll probably be an add on option.

 

[cab]

I am definitely interested in the air suspension, but only because I ASSUME Tesla will pair it with a slightly softer damper as they seem to do with the Model S. You can have both "performance" and "air springs" as exemplified in my P85+.

I do wish, as others note, that Tesla offered active/adaptive dampers as many of their competitors do in this segment. I would take that over air and the height adjustability any day (although I admit, I have used that at times and appreciate the GPS aspect of it).

 

[Petra]

Isn't the MS P100D an AWD and is it considered a Performance car and a "sporty" car?

I think SAS will be bundled with AWD on the model 3 and will be priced the same or slightly less than the MS version. I NEED SAS, I don't need AWD, but I will take the bundled package anyway, the AWD will likely get me somewhat better range too.

Tesla's air suspension is a bit of a floaty mess even in the P85+, despite the P85+ being the best handling version of the Model S to date. Of the 14 Model S I've driven/had in my care (loaners), 9 have been equipped with air suspension and I complained to myself every time. There are some really fantastic adaptive suspension systems out there, but Tesla's isn't one of them. If all you're looking for is a smoother/softer ride and can tolerate some float, then you'll probably think the air suspension in the S is great.

I hope that the dual motor option is separate from the air suspension.

 

[seattlite2004]

Tesla's air suspension is a bit of a floaty mess even in the P85+, despite the P85+ being the best handling version of the Model S to date. Of the 14 Model S I've driven/had in my care (loaners), 9 have been equipped with air suspension and I complained to myself every time. There are some really fantastic adaptive suspension systems out there, but Tesla's isn't one of them. If all you're looking for is a smoother/softer ride and can tolerate some float, then you'll probably think the air suspension in the S is great.

I hope that the dual motor option is separate from the air suspension.

It seems that the P100D also made Chris Harris and company feel "quite ill": @12:24

 

[ratsbew]

Don't want SAS. I want the lowest possible ownership costs and SAS will require expensive repairs eventually. All I want is a tow hitch and I don't really want AWD or SAS to tow a 3,500lb trailer.