-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
With the right adapter :wink:
DockBoss+: Plug Android phones into iPhone docks | Android Atlas - CNET Reviews
This is the way to go. It's one of the requirements placed on NRG by its settlement agreement with California, so helpful that will help set the standard.
I think all of the DC QCs can do variable-voltage / variable-current based on the requests of the vehicle.
Not sure if the range of voltages overlap appropriately, but I suspect that a Tesla supercharger is able to turn down the charge rate to something below 50kW when requested.
Also, just because the alternatives are not "optimal" (CHAdeMO being slower than Supercharger), doesn't mean it isn't useful. If a Model S is conveniently near a CHAdeMO, but not near a Supercharger nor a HPC, they could want to use it. Also, CHAdeMO could fill in gaps between Superchargers especially before the Supercharger build-out is done. Cars like the LEAF (with rather limited range) are even more eager to find more fast charging opportunities to make longer trips possible. Being able to use a mix of CHAdeMO & Supercharging could open up more possible routes.
Also, sometimes you just want a "bio-break" on a drive at a particular time, not when you make it to the next pin on your preferred charging location map. So if there happened to be another brand of charging station at the restaurant / bathroom you saw when the need arose it would be nice to be able to use whatever charging facilities happened to be there.
Last edited:
Well, I get your point, but I think Apple does encourage 3rd party peripheral devices, and lets their charging doc pinout / spec be known...
Apple iPod, iPhone (2g, 3g), iPad Dock connector pinout and wiring @ pinouts.ru
iPodLinux :: Dock Connector - iPodLinux
Apple iPod, iPad and iPhone dock - AllPinouts
I wonder how Tesla would/will respond if someone "reverse engineers" their Supercharger protocol and shows up trying to charge a non Tesla vehicle there?
I know some "home brew" EV conversion people are working on CHAdeMO interfaces so they can charge their EVs at CHAdeMO stations...
The supercharger device as revealed contains 12 on board chargers and is capable of 120kW total output. A supercharger can serve 2 vehicles at a time, balancing power requirements between them. Supercharging use cases are
one Model S-85 charging at 90kW (30kW SC idle)
two Model S-85 charging, one at 90kW, the other tapering off after 70% SOC were reached
two Model S-85 charging at 60kW each (reducing charging speed from 150miles/h to 100miles/h)
two Model S-60 charging at 60kW each (assuming Tesla sticks with a maximum 1C charge rate)
one future Model X-120 charging at 120kW (speculative!
)
My conclusion: Any vehicle not capable of swallowing 60kW wastes a supercharger plug. As a consequence, Tesla excluded the Model S-40kWh as well as Toyota RAV4-EV and all other brands of EVs from using superchargers.
one Model S-85 charging at 90kW (30kW SC idle)
two Model S-85 charging, one at 90kW, the other tapering off after 70% SOC were reached
two Model S-85 charging at 60kW each (reducing charging speed from 150miles/h to 100miles/h)
two Model S-60 charging at 60kW each (assuming Tesla sticks with a maximum 1C charge rate)
one future Model X-120 charging at 120kW (speculative!
)My conclusion: Any vehicle not capable of swallowing 60kW wastes a supercharger plug. As a consequence, Tesla excluded the Model S-40kWh as well as Toyota RAV4-EV and all other brands of EVs from using superchargers.
sublimaze1
8Dec2012 / Leeroy Jenkins
Well, I get your point, but I think Apple does encourage 3rd party peripheral devices, and lets their charging doc pinout / spec be known...
Apple iPod, iPhone (2g, 3g), iPad Dock connector pinout and wiring @ pinouts.ru
iPodLinux :: Dock Connector - iPodLinux
Apple iPod, iPad and iPhone dock - AllPinouts
I wonder how Tesla would/will respond if someone "reverse engineers" their Supercharger protocol and shows up trying to charge a non Tesla vehicle there?
I know some "home brew" EV conversion people are working on CHAdeMO interfaces so they can charge their EVs at CHAdeMO stations...
Home Brew:
iPod versus Tesla. So I see the upside - iPod can mate to different peripherals (or in EV sense, other autos can rapid charge). Downside, the iPod gets fried or semi-permanently disabled (or in EV sense, you burn down a charging station).
> risk of becoming another "Betamax" [ ToddRLockwood]
But digital has by now completely replaced analog recording, both VHS & BetaMax, so the end of that era. SCing EVs will continue well beyond the foreseeable future. If Tesla's efforts provoke Big Auto to actually *do something useful* along these lines, then hurray! But they cannot offer a better deal than the Tesla SC; they can only hope to match it.
--
But digital has by now completely replaced analog recording, both VHS & BetaMax, so the end of that era. SCing EVs will continue well beyond the foreseeable future. If Tesla's efforts provoke Big Auto to actually *do something useful* along these lines, then hurray! But they cannot offer a better deal than the Tesla SC; they can only hope to match it.
--
> At some point you can question fairness and reciprocity. Right now a Model S can pull into a Nissan dealer and charge at their J1772 EVSE, but a LEAF can't charge at any Tesla charging stations [TEG]
Unfair compare. If today a Leaf hooks up to the Tesla charger at a TESLA STORE using a 'reverse CAN' no one will complain. They might very well come out & applaud & post photos on TMC.
--
Unfair compare. If today a Leaf hooks up to the Tesla charger at a TESLA STORE using a 'reverse CAN' no one will complain. They might very well come out & applaud & post photos on TMC.
--
The supercharger device as revealed contains 12 on board chargers and is capable of 120kW total output. A supercharger can serve 2 vehicles at a time, balancing power requirements between them. Supercharging use cases are
one Model S-85 charging at 90kW (30kW SC idle)
two Model S-85 charging, one at 90kW, the other tapering off after 70% SOC were reached
two Model S-85 charging at 60kW each (reducing charging speed from 150miles/h to 100miles/h)
two Model S-60 charging at 60kW each (assuming Tesla sticks with a maximum 1C charge rate)
one future Model X-120 charging at 120kW (speculative!
My conclusion: Any vehicle not capable of swallowing 60kW wastes a supercharger plug. As a consequence, Tesla excluded the Model S-40kWh as well as Toyota RAV4-EV and all other brands of EVs from using superchargers.
This also points out an interesting fact - if you arrive at a six slot supercharger and one slot is occupied, don't park beside the other car! The supercharger slots are in pairs, and you'll share current with the car beside you.
Assuming they are actually wired up that way. Looking at the photos of the Folsom site under construction, it looks like they've wired parking bays #1 and #3, with signs of digging to lay conduit (but no posts for the actual above-ground pillar) to parking bays #2 and #4. This would suggest that #1 and #3 are the first charger, and when another one is added later it will be #2 and #4. But this isn't conclusive....
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10286-Confirmed-supercharger-location-in-Folsom-CA
Fair compare... Where is this "reverse can" ? A Model S comes with a J1772 so any of them can drive right up to a Nissan dealer plug into the J1772s.
I have yet to find a source for an adapter to plug my LEAF into any Tesla HPCs (Roadster or Model S style.)
I would go straight to JB Straubel. Engineer to Engineer. Though we Tesla owners have noticed that many of the new Tesla stores don't have 2.0 Tesla plugs yet so there may be a shortage now.
And while today's Roadster is near sold out in EU it may not be competing with you but the next gen Roadster will probably be direct competition to today's Rimac. Elon has his sites on Bugatti for that one.
> I have yet to find a source for an adapter to plug my LEAF into any Tesla HPCs (Roadster or Model S style.) [TEG]
But if you had one today you could drive right up to any TStore/TShop (dealership) and charge your Leaf with their blessing. Just making the thought parallel. Both dealerships, TM & Nissan, are generous, traffic permitting. 3rd parties are working on reverse CANs, etc keeping futures bright.
--
But if you had one today you could drive right up to any TStore/TShop (dealership) and charge your Leaf with their blessing. Just making the thought parallel. Both dealerships, TM & Nissan, are generous, traffic permitting. 3rd parties are working on reverse CANs, etc keeping futures bright.
--
snort
Member
It seems to me that Tesla would do itself a service if they promote compatibility with other vehicles and their charging system. A Leaf, i3 or Soul should be able to plug in at an HPWC, or supercharger. They already have a J1772 => model S adapter and a CHAdeMO => model S. If I understand the protocols, a model S to J1772 should be straightforward: the wires just pass through. Henry Sharpe already has all the pieces for his roadster adapters. It's just a mechanical thing. I haven't been able to find one. One complication is that the the receptacle side of this adapter has to be able to figure out that it's been plugged into a supercharger and do the right thing, which is either to refuse to connect or charge the J1772 side. If the supercharger itself were doing this detection, it could provide appropriate J1772 AC fairly straightforwardly, but doing this would tend to monopolize the supercharger in a way that resembles ICEing. Many SCs already have a 1772, often free.
The supercharger is more interesting. Tesla is factoring the cost into all the vehicles it's selling, front-loading this cost. This is not a viable business model for a company going for the low end of the market, as Nissan, Chevy and Kia are. So a Leaf owner who wants to use a supercharger would need to buy an adapter AND a license from Tesla. The $2500 cost of the supercharger upgrade suggests what this license fee would need to be. The adapter would accept Supercharger protocols and transmit CHAdeMO protocols and voltages to the car. An important part of this is throttling the flow of current to CHAdeMO limits, of course.
Opening up the supercharger to other cars in this way would expand the popularity of SCs in general. I think Tesla is making a mistake by requiring all cars that wish to use the supercharge to front load the cost. This is an acceptable policy for a high end car, but it kills the market for the low enders. I don't know if the hardware is in place, but it should be a simple matter for the supercharger to figure out the identity of the car when it plugs in (possibly using a separate RFID card like chargepoint or blink) and send the bill to the appropriate place...which is /dev/null for cars that have already paid their supercharger license.
- Snortybartfast
The supercharger is more interesting. Tesla is factoring the cost into all the vehicles it's selling, front-loading this cost. This is not a viable business model for a company going for the low end of the market, as Nissan, Chevy and Kia are. So a Leaf owner who wants to use a supercharger would need to buy an adapter AND a license from Tesla. The $2500 cost of the supercharger upgrade suggests what this license fee would need to be. The adapter would accept Supercharger protocols and transmit CHAdeMO protocols and voltages to the car. An important part of this is throttling the flow of current to CHAdeMO limits, of course.
Opening up the supercharger to other cars in this way would expand the popularity of SCs in general. I think Tesla is making a mistake by requiring all cars that wish to use the supercharge to front load the cost. This is an acceptable policy for a high end car, but it kills the market for the low enders. I don't know if the hardware is in place, but it should be a simple matter for the supercharger to figure out the identity of the car when it plugs in (possibly using a separate RFID card like chargepoint or blink) and send the bill to the appropriate place...which is /dev/null for cars that have already paid their supercharger license.
- Snortybartfast
mknox
Well-Known Member
I'd be very interested in the reverse of this... a Tesla to J1772 adapter for Level 2 charging. Seems like it should be incredibly simple.
I read in another thread that just such an adapter is being designed, possibly available by Xmas.
Similar threads
- Question
