Will the Mod3 PXXD be quicker than the S?

[Bruin1996]

I'd be perfectly happy with a sub-4 0-60 sec Performance Model 3. My current S 90D is more than fast enough with its 4.2 sec 0-60. Also hoping Tesla can get the range up around 300 miles with the max performance battery pack for the Model 3. I think the sub-3 sec (low to mid -2's) performance will come with the Tesla Roadster 2.

 

[Model S M.D.]

Would love to see a sub 4s PXXD Model 3 with good range as well. I think Elon Musk will let the Model 3 be the best car it can be and trounce the competition. If it ends up being quicker than the S, then so be it. Some will still prefer the size of the S just like some prefer the size of the 7 series over the 3 series BMW.

Can't wait to see what comes next...

 

[wallet.dat]

The RWD Model S 70 can hit 60 in 5.5 seconds. Now, assuming the base RWD Mod3 achieves its target of "under" 6.0 seconds to 60 (let's just call it 5.9 sec for simplicity), that puts it at roughly .4 sec behind the S. Now assuming similar performance spread between the base RWD platforms and the balls-out PXXD platforms, we could reasonably expect the Mod3 PXXD to come in roughly .4 sec behind the P90D's 2.8 sec 0-60 time -- or 3.2 seconds, which sounds pretty good to me.

 

[doublejj]

Just like there are high & low performance versions of the model s I believe Elon will bring ever spec of performance out of each model. There is no need to worry about performance overlap between S&3 models, they are completely different class of cars & Elon will want the top performance on display for each platform.

 

[zer0cool]

No, performance Model 3 will not be faster than Model S, unless Tesla is stupid. There's a reason the Audi RS7 has a ridiculous engine vs the RS4, or the same analogue from BMW and Merc. If you put that 600 hp engine on the M3 or C63 (assuming they fit), then who the hell will buy the much more expensive higher level cars? It's a business decision.

Also for Tesla it will be limited by technology as well. To output that much power requires higher voltage. The 70 and 90 batteries have different voltages. Unless Tesla can increase voltage on smaller battery packs, Model 3 batteries won't be able to output as much power as the Model S.

I expect performance Model 3 to match 0-60 of its competitors, namely M3 and C63, at around 4 secs. The biggest concern actually for smaller and thus lower voltage battery is actually not 0-60, but afterwards. Obviously EVs get weak after they pick up speed, but how weak will the performance version be after 60? I think that will be pretty important for people who are actually considering the P version (currently engines driven by lower V batteries will weaken significantly faster).

 

[brianman]

I follow this guy named Jack Rickard on YouTube

.

For some reason - He spends his money buying Tesla Drive Trains - Breaks them down - And does tests on them. I have watched countless hours of his videos and contrary to Tesla's website - he has showed live on one of his tremendously long videos that the only difference between his MS and the P version is software. He demonstrated that he has mimicked Tesla's software that Tesla provides and in some tests provided direct motor to battery full out current draw and didn't have to change hardware.

If you have a few day's of spare time.....you might find his videos interesting - or maybe not.

I trust people who actually do things as opposed to speculate. I love speculation though - Its exciting to hear the wheels in peoples brain moving - even if its fruitless.

I think your problem comes from generalizing. The P85D and the 85D have different rear motors. Some have argued the P85 and the (S)85 have the same single motor. By making general statements on what "P" offers, you miss that the "D" part affects what differences "P" involves.

And this...

The 85D has the same smaller motor front and back. The older rear wheel drive 85 had the same size rear motor as the P85. The motors do seem to be similar but have different part numbers and it is believed that the P85 rear motor has higher rated transistors in the inverter for delivering the higher power.

 

[Garlan Garner]

I think your problem comes from generalizing. The P85D and the 85D have different rear motors. Some have argued the P85 and the (S)85 have the same single motor. By making general statements on what "P" offers, you miss that the "D" part affects what differences "P" involves.

And this...

My problem? hmmmm. problem.... no problems here.

There have been different iterations of P's and D's. The rear motor in D's have changed over the years - per the videos. It doesn't really matter to me. No problems here.

 

[tomas]

My problem? hmmmm. problem.... no problems here.

There have been different iterations of P's and D's. The rear motor in D's have changed over the years - per the videos. It doesn't really matter to me. No problems here.

Disregard for facts is a problem. The D has not been out for "years". Batteries and software have changed but drive unit rating has been the same since introduction of D - certainly not "many" changes. I don't think you can swim with this crowd flaunting facts.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Disregard for facts is a problem. The D has not been out for "years". Batteries and software have changed but drive unit rating has been the same since introduction of D - certainly not "many" changes. I don't think you can swim with this crowd flaunting facts.

LOL..... I'm not going anywhere. This is fun.

 

[tomas]

LOL..... I'm not going anywhere. This is fun.

No, it is not.

 

[Garlan Garner]

OP....

I would love for my "P"M3"D" to be quicker than the MS.

Going to power it off my Solar Grid. SolarEdge

My son and I installed it ourselves.

 

[shokunin]

I follow this guy named Jack Rickard on YouTube

For some reason - He spends his money buying Tesla Drive Trains - Breaks them down - And does tests on them. I have watched countless hours of his videos and contrary to Tesla's website - he has showed live on one of his tremendously long videos that the only difference between his MS and the P version is software. He demonstrated that he has mimicked Tesla's software that Tesla provides and in some tests provided direct motor to battery full out current draw and didn't have to change hardware.

If you have a few day's of spare time.....you might find his videos interesting - or maybe not.

I trust people who actually do things as opposed to speculate. I love speculation though - Its exciting to hear the wheels in peoples brain moving - even if its fruitless.

None of us are speculating on motor sizes, a visual inspection of the car you can see the difference in motor size.

Here's your claimed authoritative source confirming the different motors between the D models and PxxD models. Conversation on motors begin at 1:06:40

 

[Garlan Garner]

Please watch the earlier videos. Yes there is a difference NOW, however his previous videos indicate the same rear motors between the P and non P.

Maybe he was wrong..... So what. geesshhh

 

[Garlan Garner]

BTW, I'm ignoring all remaining comments on this thread....so please argue by yourselves. have fun.

 

[doublejj]

LOL..... I'm not going anywhere. This is fun.

Not having so much fun any more?....

 

[favo]

Now assuming similar performance spread between the base RWD platforms and the balls-out PXXD platforms, we could reasonably expect the Mod3 PXXD to come in roughly .4 sec behind the P90D's 2.8 sec 0-60 time -- or 3.2 seconds, which sounds pretty good to me.

Yeah, I was thinking along those same lines. Although, 2.8 is with Ludicrous, which may not be an option on Model 3. Non-Ludicrous P90D is 3.1, which would put Model 3 PxxD at 3.5. My guess is it won't be below 3.0 mainly for cost reasons. I'm hoping for 3-3.5 range. Hard to imagine they won't get it to under 4.0, if base model is under 6.0. (3.5 also gives a decent lead over 2016 BMW M3 at 3.9.)

 

[JohnSnowNW]

Yeah, I was thinking along those same lines. Although, 2.8 is with Ludicrous, which may not be an option on Model 3. Non-Ludicrous P90D is 3.1, which would put Model 3 PxxD at 3.5. My guess is it won't be below 3.0 mainly for cost reasons.

I don't see a reason why Ludicrous would not be an option on the Model 3 it's only software. It also stand to reason that the performance models will be available with the performance people are willing to pay for.

 

[favo]

I don't see a reason why Ludicrous would not be an option on the Model 3 it's only software. It also stand to reason that the performance models will be available with the performance people are willing to pay for.

It's not only software.

From the Tesla blog post:

Luuudicrous Mode
While working on our goal of making the power train last a million miles, we came up with the idea for an advanced smart fuse for the battery. Instead of a standard fuse that just melts past a certain amperage, requiring a big gap between the normal operating current and max current, we developed a fuse with its own electronics and a tiny lithium-ion battery. It constantly monitors current at the millisecond level and is pyro-actuated to cut power with extreme precision and certainty.

That was combined with upgrading the main pack contactor to use inconel (a high temperature space-grade superalloy) instead of steel, so that it remains springy under the heat of heavy current. The net result is that we can safely increase the max pack output from 1300 to 1500 Amps.

 

[JohnSnowNW]

It's not only software.

From the Tesla blog post:

It is now. All 90D packs come with the new hardware.

 

[malcolm]

It might depend on Apple. With a name like "Project Titan" (okay, what is it with these overblown project names? Darkstar/Whitestar/Bluestar seem so long ago now.), something has to appear at some stage.

Dropping half a second on the M3 0-60 via an OTA upgrade would be a fun way to steal headlines from Apple's EV launch.