Will the Mod3 PXXD be quicker than the S?

[voip-ninja]

"I am 90% sure <something that doesn't exist yet> will not be faster than <something else that doesn't exist yet>."

I think Vegas would love to have gamblers with your confidence visiting often.

What would be really awesome is if you are going to respond to eight different posts you try to use the multi quote feature when you do it.

 

[brianman]

Insane mode for Model S was 3.2 seconds 0-60 MPH. Blisteringly fast for a 3,925 lbs vehicle that could carry as many as seven passengers. Not at all what the world is used to seeing in a full-sized sedan. I would not expect worse Performance from Insane settings in the Model ☰.

Ludicrous mode for Model S knocked as much as a half second off the Insane level of acceleration.

Some corrections:
- Insane is not was.
- Insane 85 @ 3.2
- Insane 90 @ 3.1
- Ludicrous 85 @ 2.9 (-0.3 not -0.5)
- Ludicrous 90 @ 2.8 (-0.3 not -0.5)

 

[brianman]

What would be really awesome is if you are going to respond to eight different posts you try to use the multi quote feature when you do it.

No thanks. I prefer atomic thoughts rather than a wall of text.

 

[malcolm]

First, I'll go on record saying that even though there are some people I really dislike (see: NADA) I don't wish explosion on anyone.

Second, your usage of "exploded" in your second sentence is unclear. Speaking as a serial Model S performance owner -- I look forward to seeing a Model 3 that will make the current P*D Model S feel 'slow' in the acceleration game.

That's good to know. However it was the whole "where's my Ludicrous upgrade?" cry from some which suggests that there's a number of S owners who, having migrated from the halo cars of other manufacturers naturally expect Tesla to adopt a similar product hierarchy and maintain the S as top dog. Short term, while the 3 production ramps up, I thought that might be true - so possibly the part 2 of the Reveal would feature a 0 to 60 of 3.0 rather than matching or beating the S's time. But the announcement of 500k cars by the end of 2018 makes me think that Tesla are not going to modify the 3's specs, just to maintain current reservation numbers.

Elon said that he was expecting 3 reservation numbers to take off, but only after part two of the Reveal - suggesting that the options/specs will be streets ahead of anything else (again).

Will there be a thread on the S forum with the title "Where's my Model 3 tech upgrade?" Probably.

Do Tesla need to boost reservation numbers still higher? Looks like they're preparing for it.

 

[Alketi]

Tidbit from one of the test drives:

Passenger: "So what was that for the 0-60?"

Tesla driver: "Ah, we haven't actually quoted any numbers yet, but suffice it to say, it's fast. It's not quite a Model S Ludicrous, so if you want the fastest performance ..."

At 10:50 in the following video:

 

[Colsla]

Tidbit from one of the test drives:

Passenger: "So what was that for the 0-60?"

Tesla driver: "Ah, we haven't actually quoted any numbers yet, but suffice it to say, it's fast. It's not quite a Model S Ludicrous, so if you want the fastest performance ..."

At 10:50 in the following video:

I know there is someone somewhere in this forum who analyzed 0to 60 in one of the test ride videos and estimated 0to60 of the prototype. I think it was just under 4 sec.. But I guess we still don't know if it's the performance version or not

 

[garsh]

Some corrections:
...
- Ludicrous 90 @ 2.8 (-0.3 not -0.5)

With launch control, Motor Trend got a time of 2.6s.
Tesla P90D Ludicrous 0–60 In Just 2.6 Seconds!

 

[malcolm]

Tidbit from one of the test drives:

Passenger: "So what was that for the 0-60?"

Tesla driver: "Ah, we haven't actually quoted any numbers yet, but suffice it to say, it's fast. It's not quite a Model S Ludicrous, so if you want the fastest performance ..."

At 10:50 in the following video:

Well of course, they're not going to announce a better 0-60 in Part 1 of the Reveal. There are no 3s imminent.

But clearly Elon believes that Tesla have something which will make reservations go even higher after Part 2.

Likely to be performance/range related. (Unless tens of thousands of people can suddenly get excited about a HUD)

 

[voip-ninja]

That's good to know. However it was the whole "where's my Ludicrous upgrade?" cry from some which suggests that there's a number of S owners who, having migrated from the halo cars of other manufacturers naturally expect Tesla to adopt a similar product hierarchy and maintain the S as top dog. Short term, while the 3 production ramps up, I thought that might be true - so possibly the part 2 of the Reveal would feature a 0 to 60 of 3.0 rather than matching or beating the S's time. But the announcement of 500k cars by the end of 2018 makes me think that Tesla are not going to modify the 3's specs, just to maintain current reservation numbers.

Elon said that he was expecting 3 reservation numbers to take off, but only after part two of the Reveal - suggesting that the options/specs will be streets ahead of anything else (again).

Will there be a thread on the S forum with the title "Where's my Model 3 tech upgrade?" Probably.

Do Tesla need to boost reservation numbers still higher? Looks like they're preparing for it.

As far as I'm concerned if someone wants to pay $10K to have the car be 1 second faster 0-60, more power to them. There are numerous examples of lower end cars from the same manufacturer having slightly higher performance than more expensive cars. Model S is a full sized sedan. Model 3 is going to be a mid-size sedan. Last time I checked an Audi RS4 is a LOT faster than big brother S8 and it should be.

For me, my current car (340xi) is the fastest I have ever owned but the need for speed is addicting. Current car is 0-60 in about 4.5 seconds and last one was about 5.8 seconds. The speed difference is very noticeable (even more so at the 50-80mph passing speed range). I can only imagine what 3 seconds is like (which is a hair quicker than fastest cars I have driven like Porsche 911 and Corvettes)... as in "crap your pants" fast.

I almost definitely won't spring for Ludicrous/Insane modes as long as performance AWD on the Model S matches or beats what I have now, but if money was no object I probably would, just for giggles.

 

[brianman]

However it was the whole "where's my Ludicrous upgrade?" cry from some which suggests that there's a number of S owners who, having migrated from the halo cars of other manufacturers naturally expect Tesla to adopt a similar product hierarchy and maintain the S as top dog.

I think you're grossly mischaracterizing why people were upset about the P85D + Ludicrous + HP + 0-60 + 1/4 mile situation. Tesla came across very poorly in that whole debacle. Owners weren't the problem.

 

[brianman]

With launch control, Motor Trend got a time of 2.6s.
Tesla P90D Ludicrous 0–60 In Just 2.6 Seconds!

With MT, there's all kinds of "nobody else on the planet can reproduce" numbers floating around. I've lost faith in MT as a check on Tesla's performance branding.

 

[brianman]

I can only imagine what 3 seconds is like (which is a hair quicker than fastest cars I have driven like Porsche 911 and Corvettes)... as in "crap your pants" fast.

Find a Ludicrous owner near you and politely ask for a demo. He/she won't even charge you, unlike amusement park rides that accelerate more slowly.

 

[Zoomit]

70
0 to 60 mph in 5.5
0 to 100 kph in 5.8

70D

0 to 60 mph in 5.2
0 to 100 kph in 5.4

In Canadian website it does say 'Zero to 100 km/h under 6 seconds'

Again, I am not sure if Tesla made a mistake in converting units, but it clearly says 0 to 100 kph under 6 seconds. Now I am not sure what exact number Tesla used to get 0.3 sec difference in converting 70 but 0.2 in 70D, but it seems safe to assume that 0 to 60 mph will be at least 5.7 seconds as it stands.

Now, its an easy math anyone can do, but from 70 to P90DL is 2.7 sec quicker. If Model 3 base model is actually 5.7 sec, PxxDL will be 3.0 seconds. Of course there are soooo many unknown factors that need to be accounted for, but 3.0 sec 0 to 60 seems to be plenty quick to satisfy those who are concerned about the acceleration without affecting the sales of Model S due to quicker acceleration offered by model 3.

But, like someone mentioned in a post above, this is comparison with CURRENT model S, not what it will be in about a year's time. So will Model 3 be quicker than CURRENT model S? it is probable. Will it be quicker than the Model S in mid to late 2017 if not later? I am doubtful, even with better efficiency and better technology that will go in Model 3, it will still be first gen Model 3 with plenty of room for improvement.

This is a good point about the base Model 3 performance. EM at the reveal stated that, "even the base Model 3 will do 0 to 60 mph or 0 to 100 kph in less than 6 seconds." (10m13s in the video)

I agree, based on your logic, that the base Model 3 will do 5.7secs or less 0-60.

 

[Red Sage]

Some corrections:
- Insane is not was.
- Insane 85 @ 3.2
- Insane 90 @ 3.1
- Ludicrous 85 @ 2.9 (-0.3 not -0.5)
- Ludicrous 90 @ 2.8 (-0.3 not -0.5)

I probably meant that the Model S P85D is no longer offered, hence, 'was upon release'. Sorry if that was unclear.

 

[Red Sage]

Tidbit from one of the test drives:

Passenger: "So what was that for the 0-60?"

Tesla driver: "Ah, we haven't actually quoted any numbers yet, but suffice it to say, it's fast. It's not quite a Model S Ludicrous, so if you want the fastest performance ..."

I took that to mean that, 'This car doesn't have Ludicrous, and is not the Performance iteration of Model ☰...' myself.

 

[Red Sage]

I think you're grossly mischaracterizing why people were upset about the P85D + Ludicrous + HP + 0-60 + 1/4 mile situation. Tesla came across very poorly in that whole debacle. Owners weren't the problem.

Amazing how many people wanted to 'trip the lights' at 135+ MPH in a 1/4 mile run... and hit 155 MPH before they could reach the brake pedal.

 

[brianman]

I probably meant that the Model S P85D is no longer offered, hence, 'was upon release'. Sorry if that was unclear.

Understood but Insane 90 is still available.

 

[Garlan Garner]

Sure, I guess that also explains why the P rear drive unit is a different part number, right? Elaborate ruse by Tesla to conceal that they are actually producing a more expensive drive unit for both cars and software limiting it. Though I am not an EE, it is my understanding that revving an electric motor up to a certain power level above 'spec' is often possible, even though the motor is not rated for continuous duty at that higher output. So, not sure I trust the bench tests any more than Tesla's website.

All yours, @brianman

The refreshed Tesla Model S 70 lets you pay to 'unlock' a bigger battery

Are you kidding me? You mean the S can upgrade it's power without swapping motors or installing different hardware? You have got to be kidding.

 

[Uncle Paul]

Imagine that the lighter Model 3 will have the fastest options until the new Roadster is released.

 

[tomas]

The refreshed Tesla Model S 70 lets you pay to 'unlock' a bigger battery

Are you kidding me? You mean the S can upgrade it's power without swapping motors or installing different hardware? You have got to be kidding.

Doesn't shock me with battery, I'll wager the 75 capable one is a different part number. You are still wrong on drive units.