I saw a sporty new Mercedes CUV/SUV this morning with dealer tags on it. Looked pretty cool, but I thought "they should have waited for the Model X." Then I realized we don't even know what the front of the X looks like, or have more interior shots, etc. Why would a non-Tesla fan bother waiting for an X at this point.... According to the website, if you order now you get delivery in early 2016. If Tesla thinks they have a show stopper, they should be releasing all sorts of info so buyers hold off from buying other brands. Maybe they think they have a flop and are trying to hide it for as long as possible. I'm starting to get worried.
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I saw a sporty new Mercedes CUV/SUV this morning with dealer tags on it. Looked pretty cool, but I thought "they should have waited for the Model X." Then I realized we don't even know what the front of the X looks like, or have more interior shots, etc. Why would a non-Tesla fan bother waiting for an X at this point.... According to the website, if you order now you get delivery in early 2016. If Tesla thinks they have a show stopper, they should be releasing all sorts of info so buyers hold off from buying other brands. Maybe they think they have a flop and are trying to hide it for as long as possible. I'm starting to get worried.
There are many reasons why Tesla may be holding off on revealing everything as long as possible (e.g. protect Model-S sales, details not finalized, want to generate buzz, big public reveal, etc.). I'm very certain that they don't think the Model-X will be a flop. If anything, Tesla's hubris is that they think it'll be too great and everyone will want one.
I took a WAG at dimensions if the 2nd row moves forward and nestles the front seats, or close to it. A few notes before you comment:
1) Definitely possible this Tesla image is not to scale.
2) Definitely possible there's some aspect to the image and I'm not accounting for that.
3) Definitely possible I did something or everything wrong.
I was generous with the width in the back because I don't know the height of the sides of the seats. I was also generous (I think) with the depth measurements. So with the disclaimers above, these numbers should be best-case.
1) Definitely possible this Tesla image is not to scale.
2) Definitely possible there's some aspect to the image and I'm not accounting for that.
3) Definitely possible I did something or everything wrong.
I was generous with the width in the back because I don't know the height of the sides of the seats. I was also generous (I think) with the depth measurements. So with the disclaimers above, these numbers should be best-case.
I hope so.
The issue I see here is that in say a Q7, the 3rd row are in the floor but the 2nd row being fixed in terms of back/forward form a neat "trunk" (just like the S 's). This leaves no gaps for stuff to fall through, and it also gives you the option of a parcel shelf behind the 2nd rows to hide stuff from prying eyes.
I so wish they'd just put regular doors on, made it look pumped up and SUV like and been done with it. To me these folding doors and arty pedestals are an answer to a problem that no one seemed to ask
dirkhh
Middle-aged Member
No kidding. And then ship it a year ago since you saved yourself all that extra complicated engineering for the silly doors and the allegedly super complicated second row.I so wish they'd just put regular doors on, made it look pumped up and SUV like and been done with it. To me these folding doors and arty pedestals are an answer to a problem that no one seemed to ask
PGeer
Member
Elon used to own an Audi Q7 and has remarked how his intention was to make the X better. Better egress into the third row was one of the main design criteria for the falcon wings. This is a picture of the Q7 with flat floors. I encourage readers to Google the car and check out various pictures of interior. I'd be surprised (and disappointed) if Elon hasn't created an interior that "beats" what Audi has done, perhaps using a novel approach rather than what every other manufacturer has done.
So if you pulled the second row up againt the first row what would be the space behind it ? What is it for the Model S ?
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I feel like I did pull up the second row to close to its max. If you remove it completely, and measure to the headrests, you get about another 6" of space (again, please note the caveats in my original email). So 87" total from the *bumper* to the back of the front seat headrests. I think usable space will be less since obviously there's a back hatch.
My guess for these seats, based on everything in this thread and the potentially inaccurate graphic above, is that they'll just move forward and usable space will be at maximum in the 78" depth range.
I'd argue if that was the buying decision, I'd buy an MPV / Minivan with sliding doors. (They open in the width of the mirrors, have great access to row 3, but require no more roof clearance or crazily complicated technical solutions). Elon new full well he wouldn't be able to charge $100k for a minivan though
If you want an SUV the Audi is very good at being a 5 seater, with "occasional" 2 extra seats (I can't remember the last time ours were up). It has a proper "trunk", and huge space folded flat.
I have the Q7 and a Kia Sedona. I have to say the interior pics so far of the X seems much more like the latter.
I know it was supposed to be a hybrid of the two, but it seems to have not brought the best aspects of both, and compromises trying to be.
So you are saying that the blue 81" line is the back of the seats pulled forward not the middle of them as pictured ?
Model S useable distance with second row folded down is about 77 inches. So if Kevin's analysis is correct, then Model X with second seats just pushed all the way forward would give you about the same space. Actually probably more since the Model X is taller.
I've wondered if The Model X will have a shortened frunk area to allow the interior cabin space to be larger than Model S...
I've wondered if The Model X will have a shortened frunk area to allow the interior cabin space to be larger than Model S...
I Like what Ohmman did... but how about this for an easier visualisation:
I have overlayed the graphic of the X on top of the S. Using the cupholders and steering wheel as guide points for scaling and positioning. I's obviously not perfect, and probably overstates the rear overhang.
If for a moment we imagine the 3rd row work like in the S and fold forward against the seats in front. Instead of the front seats being the limit, now the non folding middle row will be in the X.
The middle row seats will be at least 22" deep (this is from the rear S seats, in luxo-mode signature probably more.). I'll guess the overhang is 4".
In short you have effectively lost 18" of capacity compared to the S with fixed middle seats
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I can't see this if the skateboard isn't significantly altered. Remember the "hump" in the pack of the 85 batteries. This will be up under the dash area, with the motor in front of that.
(I won't mention my theory on the Model S originally being planned to be what we now have as the S70 at this point The hump always seemed a bit of a odd choice, from a packaging POV)
I have overlayed the graphic of the X on top of the S. Using the cupholders and steering wheel as guide points for scaling and positioning. I's obviously not perfect, and probably overstates the rear overhang.
If for a moment we imagine the 3rd row work like in the S and fold forward against the seats in front. Instead of the front seats being the limit, now the non folding middle row will be in the X.
The middle row seats will be at least 22" deep (this is from the rear S seats, in luxo-mode signature probably more.). I'll guess the overhang is 4".
In short you have effectively lost 18" of capacity compared to the S with fixed middle seats
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I can't see this if the skateboard isn't significantly altered. Remember the "hump" in the pack of the 85 batteries. This will be up under the dash area, with the motor in front of that.
(I won't mention my theory on the Model S originally being planned to be what we now have as the S70 at this point
The hump always seemed a bit of a odd choice, from a packaging POV)
Mark Z
Active Member
Capacity in length, but if you don't mind placing some of your smaller cargo on the adjustable 2nd row seats, total capacity volume would be more than Model S. Keeping a moving blanket in the frunk could help protect the seats during shopping or moving adventures. Think of the 2nd row seat back as a safety barrier between heavy items in the back and the lighter items in the front....In short you have effectively lost 18" of capacity compared to the S with fixed middle seats
As a vacation vehicle for a maximum of 5 persons, the adjustable 2nd row may provide flexibility for larger amounts of luggage and souvenir shopping. As shopping increases, the leg room decreases!
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True. Overall volume has gone up, and I suppose more importantly for single large loads additional loading height below the tailgate glass has gone up too.
But it still looks like somethings that would fit in an S won't fit in an X ( and vice versa.)
(and anything that could fit in an S or X would fit in a Q7
)
ssq
Member
What about the second and third row being raised vs. the first row viz. lets say about 6" higher to allow the second row base pedestal+framework to slide inwards towards the skateboard in addition to going front-back. Could that allow for the supporting column top slide back and inwards/downwards and then the seat structure folds in its entireity forwards?I can't see this if the skateboard isn't significantly altered. Remember the "hump" in the pack of the 85 batteries. This will be up under the dash area, with the motor in front of that.
(I won't mention my theory on the Model S originally being planned to be what we now have as the S70 at this point
Edit: Actually, on second thoughts, the vertical angled pedestal supporting the seats could potentially tilt aft/backwards and inwards allowing the second row to go lower and towards the rear of the car, followed by counterclockwise folding to create a flat platform with the folded third row.
What about the second and third row being raised vs. the first row viz. lets say about 6" higher to allow the second row base pedestal+framework to slide inwards towards the skateboard in addition to going front-back. Could that allow for the supporting column top slide back and inwards/downwards and then the seat structure folds in its entireity forwards?
Edit: Actually, on second thoughts, the vertical angled pedestal supporting the seats could potentially tilt aft/backwards and inwards allowing the second row to go lower and towards the rear of the car, followed by counterclockwise folding to create a flat platform with the folded third row.
I think it's pretty clear from letters to the res. holders is the signature seats won't do anything other than slide forward presumably to the point they hit the front seat back.
The simplest solution to maintain the levels of practicality of the S would have been to have hinged seat backs that just fold down as in the prototype. (despite all the creative suggestions on here).
The question is will Tesla continue to try and make something complicated, or just work out whatever problem is preventing a folding seat back for the production cars. Sure some motorized seat ballet will look fancy, but it will get grating compared to a simple one click fold down in every other car, and they've already wasted far too much time on the X. We want them to concentrate on the 3
gizmoboy
Member
What if that "what would you do with all that space?" wasn't a rhetorical question? And what if the predominant answer was a shrug (or worse)?
NigelM
Recovering Member
New renderings appeared today, including one which gives a little better look at how the 2nd row seats stow (at least on Sigs):
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